Switch @ dishwasher

[physis]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

I'm of the same opinion but the question still seems worthy.

Is the breaker locked if a lock prevents you from accessing it?

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

A locked panel is not peculiar. It doesn't really send a message to someone who might have a key and notice a breaker shut off.

A padlocked circuit breaker sends a clearer message.

Good luck convincing an AHJ that the locked door is cool.

 

[physis]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

I don't disagree, but,

It doesn't say anything about "who has the key" or "messages".

 

[fishin' electrician]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

I find these to be poorly worded code sections.

If the breaker manufacturer also manufactures a lockable device for the breaker (and in my mind a different manufacturer that makes universal breaker lock devices) then the breaker is capable of being locked in the off position regardless of whether or not the device is installed.

I also believe that the wording "A unit switch(es) with a marked-off position..." doesn't actually require the word OFF to be present. It only requires that the off position have a marking of some sort, such as the universal I/O.

[ July 09, 2005, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: fishin' electrician ]

 

[peter d]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

How did this code rule come about anyway? Was there an actual dead body or incident behind it?

I see very few inspectors actually require this. This is what I see in my area: the dishwasher is hardwired and the "disconnect" is the circuit breaker without a lock. End of story.

No, it's not code compliant. But I don't think it's a big deal either. We often rely on "unlocked" circuit breakers as a disconnect, for instance, every general purpose circuit in a home. To me, there is far greater danger of a homeowner turning one of those back on while someone is working on something than a dedicated circuit for a dishwasher.

Nonetheless, I intall a switch inside of the cabinet next to the DW as the disconnect. Just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean I don't follow the code.

 

[volt102]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Hurk, Yes 2
101 work
102 home

Peter, do the dishwashers that you normally see have the marked off unit switch,the one that says pots and pans, normal load, rinse only, etc.? if so, it could be code compliant, see my 1st post in this tread.

Jim

 

[peter d]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Originally posted by volt102:
Peter, do the dishwashers that you normally see have the marked off unit switch,the one that says pots and pans, normal load, rinse only, etc.? if so, it could be code compliant, see my 1st post in this tread.

Jim

The one in my kitchen does. Whether it disconnects all the power to the unit, I have no idea. But a lot of the dishwashers I've connected have the fancy digital controls, so my guess would be "no."

 

[bradleyelectric]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Originally posted by infinity:
Chris,

We've used both GE and SQ D breaker locks and yes they're designed so that you can close the door on the panel.

Are you talking about breaker locks to lock the breaker off, or to lock the breaker onas an emergency light circuit?

 

[jwelectric]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Originally posted by bradleyelectric:

Originally posted by infinity:
Chris,

We've used both GE and SQ D breaker locks and yes they're designed so that you can close the door on the panel.

Are you talking about breaker locks to lock the breaker off, or to lock the breaker onas an emergency light circuit?

It would be my guess that the NEC is talking about the type of lock that is mandated by OSHA rule 1910.147-Procedure for applying the Lock/Tag

This would require a lock such as a padlock.

 

[infinity]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

Are you talking about breaker locks to lock the breaker off, or to lock the breaker onas an emergency light circuit?

We're talking about a metal clip that gets installed on the CB before the panel cover is installed and remains there. I has a loop on it to allow someone to turn the breaker to the off position and install their own padlock. This is not the clip with the set screw that we use to lock a CB in the closed position usually seen on exit signs and emergency lighting. Also these aren't the temporary lockout devices made of plastic by Panduit etc., that allow for the temporary lock out of the breaker. The permanent type allows the panel door to operate as normal, meaning it can be closed with the lock out device in place.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Switch @ dishwasher

I agree that a breaker lock fulfills the requirements that a circuit can be manually locked out if a service tech doesn`t chose to use them that`s on them.
But what about the CH lock outs without any moving parts to do the lock out you have to remove the panel cover and invert the lock out device.Has anyone encountered these???