Switch legs

[rdj]

Can according to the NEC can you use #14 AWG as a switch leg if the circuit is fed by #12 on a 20 amp circuit?

 

[augie47]

This was a accepted practice in this area for some time long ago but I don't know of a time when it was actually acceptable by the NEC and it is not currently.

 

[jumper]

Tain't legal now, wuddint' legal back when, and prolly no gonna be legal any time soon no how.

 

[mopowr steve]

I don't do it because I was taught so BUT I think it should be, for lighting switch legs/travelers only. As most likely the switch is only 15 amp rated anyhow and is compliant as long as the lighting load doesn't exceed that rating. And especially when dimmers are most commonly rated for only 600-1000 watts anyhow.

Has anyone tried to change it by submitting a proposal?

 

[K8MHZ]

I don't do it because I was taught so BUT I think it should be, for lighting switch legs/travelers only. As most likely the switch is only 15 amp rated anyhow and is compliant as long as the lighting load doesn't exceed that rating. And especially when dimmers are most commonly rated for only 600-1000 watts anyhow.

Has anyone tried to change it by submitting a proposal?

I don't think the load or the rating of the switch is the issue. I believe it's all about proper protection of the conductor.

I do believe that we are allowed 15A switches on a 20 amp circuit, and smaller fixture wires because they both will be inside an enclosure, as opposed to buried in a wall like the 14AWG switch legs would be. I would be against any proposal that would allow downsizing of switch leg conductors because of that.

 

[mopowr steve]

Ahhhhh come on,

take the word BRANCH and what does that signify. Think of a tree a branch starts out a certain size then reduces as it grows out in different directions.

Why would our our forefathers call it a BRANCH CIRCUIT if it didn't have the ability to be reduced in size determined by its loading ?

 

[K8MHZ]

Ahhhhh come on,

take the word BRANCH and what does that signify. Think of a tree a branch starts out a certain size then reduces as it grows out in different directions.

Why would our our forefathers call it a BRANCH CIRCUIT if it didn't have the ability to be reduced in size determined by its loading ?

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the reason is the above has nothing at all to do with safe electrical practices. If I am barking up the wrong tree, please let me know, and if you wood, post a copy of your proposal here. That is unless ewe decide knot to send one in.

 

[JFletcher]

240.4(D) would be the section that shoots down #14 on a 20A breaker for a lighting circuit.

 

[mopowr steve]

I know,

But I have yet to have ever seen any indication of any failure of the 14awg switch leg wires that here too appear to have been commonplace years ago.

 

[tom baker]

I know,

But I have yet to have ever seen any indication of any failure of the 14awg switch leg wires that here too appear to have been commonplace years ago.

There is your substantiation. Put your proposal in the "proposals for next code change" topic, we all can comment, then submit to NFPA

 

[JFletcher]

I know,

But I have yet to have ever seen any indication of any failure of the 14awg switch leg wires that here too appear to have been commonplace years ago.

Code citation more for the OP. 14ga switchlegs on 20A circuits are not that common here, matter of fact I do not recall the last time I saw one.

Now, poor, overworked, 15A circuits? Dime a dozen here. Pretty much every house built in the 50s here has half the house on one 15A breaker, but mixed 12/14 on a 20 is really rare.

 

[mopowr steve]

Code citation more for the OP. 14ga switchlegs on 20A circuits are not that common here, matter of fact I do not recall the last time I saw one.

Now, poor, overworked, 15A circuits? Dime a dozen here. Pretty much every house built in the 50s here has half the house on one 15A breaker, but mixed 12/14 on a 20 is really rare.

Those poor overworked 15A circuits I bet were in relation to receptacles and the various loads that were plugged into them. Seen plenty of that. I think in retrospect it should be multiple receptacles should not be allowed on a 15 amp circuit but rather a 20.
(Hey this might get people to stop using back stab receptacles since they only accept 15awg there a problem in themselves)

Here we're just talking about the last leg (switch leg and it travelers if any) to light fixtures only from a 20amp circuit.

Around here probably half of the homes I've been in that were built in the 50's-60's and even some newer have 20amp 12awg feeding receptacles and then to a switch and a 14awg going to the light. Ive even seen it with knob and tube wiring.
And yet not one I have come across in doing a rewire ever showed any indication of overload.
(were only talking about switch leg wires and travelers)

And if your concerned with a short circuit event the 14awg is well capable of opening a 20 amp breaker.

 

[Electric-Light]

And if your concerned with a short circuit event the 14awg is well capable of opening a 20 amp breaker.

Many things in NEC are based on traditions. Something in NEC is over kill, sometimes things seem stupid then I realize i was the stupid and and sometimes you can be code, but totally substandard in function/performance.

20A recep not allowed on any 15A ckt.

15A recep allowed on 15 or 20A ckts as long as it is not the only single recep on the ckts. Experience has shown time after time after time this does nothing to prevent using a Y adapter on the end of a 16 AWG extension cord to feed two power strips feeding multiple exhibit booths and full 20A is available continuously through the 16 AWG cord.

15 or 20A recep not allowed on ckts of higher ampacity than 20A perhas to prevent the situation above. Sketchy online stores sell unprotected stove outlet spider boxes along with 120/240 dual voltage grounded -| |- outlets.

 

[ewinghome]

#14AWG

#14AWG

Can according to the NEC can you use #14 AWG as a switch leg if the circuit is fed by #12 on a 20 amp circuit?

Code restricts you to the use of #12 as you are on a 20A circuit. There are certain 15A devices that can be used if not dedicated on a circuit, but the branch circuit must meet with the OCPD. There are rules that allow for the use of smaller gauge conductors as a fixture whip, but this is a different subject. At the end of the day, what is the cost difference to run a #12 vs. #14? Are you saving even 20 cents in material?!? I think the time spent arguing this costs more than running the proper sized conductor. In my book, this isn't a hill to die on. People like to nit pick and subvert the code when they are saving pennies. Best to do what you know is above board and scrutinize when it is worth it.

 

[Rob.davis12]

Can according to the NEC can you use #14 AWG as a switch leg if the circuit is fed by #12 on a 20 amp circuit?

According to Nec you are allowed to do it Note that the #14 will become extremely hot. Trying to run to many things on the same line will be hazardous and could cause a nuisance to trigger your cb to power off.

 

[luckylerado]

According to Nec you are allowed to do it Note that the #14 will become extremely hot. Trying to run to many things on the same line will be hazardous and could cause a nuisance to trigger your cb to power off.

Reference Please.

 

[roger]

According to Nec you are allowed to do it

Reference Please.

I second that request.

Roger

 

[tsparks1]

Code 2011 table 210.24. 20amp circuit allowed to be 12ga with a 14ga tap


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[480sparky]

Code 2011 table 210.24. 20amp circuit allowed to be 12ga with a 14ga tap


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Switch legs are not taps.

 

[augie47]

Code 2011 table 210.24. 20amp circuit allowed to be 12ga with a 14ga tap


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also, if I might, I word of caution. Be careful in applying Table 210.24 and note then other Sections mentioned in the actual wording such as 210.19, 210.20. There are some limitations on the Table addressed in those Sections.