switches near tubs?

[bradleyelectric]

Hi,
What is the wording in the '99 code regarding switches around bath tubs in a residence? The jurisdiction I'm dealing with is still in the '99 code and I can't find that book anymore. We actually put the switches outside the room on the same wall as the tub and the inspector says it is in the tub zone. It is just a reach around the wall to get to the switch, but if they can't be there, I need to know the wording so I can figure out where they can go.

 

[jwelectric]

Re: switches near tubs?

Per the 1999 cycle:

380-4. Wet Locations
A switch or circuit breaker in a wet location or outside of a building shall be enclosed in a weatherproof enclosure or cabinet that shall comply with Section 373-2(a). Switches shall not be installed within wet locations in tub or shower spaces unless installed as part of a listed tub or shower assembly.

 

[celtic]

Re: switches near tubs?

EDIT: I searched the 1999, posted, then saw that jwelectric had posted a different reference ???.

Searching again, I see that I had searched the 2002...oops.
The 2002 article is 404.4 - exactly the same as '99's 380-4, BUT with a reference to 312.2(A) (Just as an FYI)

I did manage to find this correctly:
1999 NEC Looseleaf Edition $14.99 on eBay (BTW, I am NOT Rexisa ~ the seller)


....I hope

[ November 05, 2005, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: celtic ]

 

[bradleyelectric]

Re: switches near tubs?

Originally posted by celtic:
[QB]

404.4 Wet Locations.
A switch or circuit breaker in a wet location or outside of a building shall be enclosed in a weatherproof enclosure or cabinet that shall comply with 312.2(A). Switches shall not be installed within wet locations in tub or shower spaces unless installed as part of a listed tub or shower assembly

312.2 Damp, Wet, or Hazardous (Classified) Locations.
(A) Damp and Wet Locations. In damp or wet locations, surface-type enclosures within the scope of this article shall be placed or equipped so as to prevent moisture or water from entering and accumulating within the cabinet or cutout box, and shall be mounted so there is at least 6 mm (1/4 in.) airspace between the enclosure and the wall or other supporting surface. Enclosures installed in wet locations shall be weatherproof.
Exception: Nonmetallic enclosures shall be permitted to be installed without the airspace on a concrete, masonry, tile, or similar surface.
FPN:For protection against corrosion, see 300.6.

Above from 1999 NECH.

What's getting me is the switches are not in the wet locations of the tub. They are in a different room. Be it they are on the back side of the wall the tub is on, they are definately not in the splash zone. This is a job that I didn't meet the inspector on, and the home owner is a real PITA. He had my man changing all kinds of things on the job without my knowledge till I found out and put a stop to it. The inspector also told me the ground to the hot tub had to be insulated and told me he would have to investigate it when I told him starting with the '99 code "interior wiring to an exterior hot tub need only be covered by an outer sheath" again trying remember the wording as not having a '99 code anymore. He also told me there were a number of box fill problems. When I said something to my man, he told me there was no way, as he does know box fill and checked. Makes me feel the homeowner changed some things himself. I'm going down to the job Monday morning with my man that did the job to see what is what. Really wanted this question answered before I got there. Thanks to all that replied. I still have not heard from the inspector on what he found out about the hot tub wire yet, thought the homeowner let me know that he heard I had spoken to the inspector. Makes me cringe as it is almost as if the inspector is close to getting into contractual discussions with the homeowner, and neither 1 seems to know much about electrical work.

 

[jwelectric]

Re: switches near tubs?

If this is a Hot Tub, one that stays full of water all the time with pump and water heater then the following applies.

680-41. Indoor Installations
A spa or hot tub installed indoors shall comply with the provisions of Parts A and B except as modified by this section, and shall be connected by the wiring methods of Chapter 3.

680-6 (c) Switching Devices. Switching devices on the property shall be located at least 5 ft (1.52 m) horizontally from the inside walls of a pool unless separated from the pool by a solid fence, wall, or other permanent barrier.

680-25 (c) In the interior of a one-family dwelling or in the interior of another building or structure associated with a one-family dwelling, any of the wiring methods recognized in Chapter 3 of this Code that contain a copper equipment grounding conductor that is insulated or covered by the outer sheath of the wiring method and is not smaller than No. 12 shall be permitted to be used for the connection of pool-associated motors. Flexible cord shall be permitted in accordance with Section 680-7.

But if this tub is a hydro massage bathtub then it will fall under 680-70

G. Hydromassage Bathtubs
680-70. Protection
Hydromassage bathtubs and their associated electrical components shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter. All 125-volt, single-phase receptacles within 5 ft (1.52 m) measured horizontally of the inside walls of a hydromassage tub shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter(s).

680-71. Other Electrical Equipment
Lighting fixtures, switches, receptacles, and other electrical equipment located in the same room, and not directly associated with a hydromassage bathtub, shall be installed in accordance with the requirements of Chapters 1 through 4 in this Code covering the installation of that equipment in bathrooms.

680-72. Accessibility
Hydromassage bathtub electrical equipment shall be accessible without damaging the building structure or building finish.

680-73. Bonding
All metal piping systems, metal parts of electrical equipment, and pump motors associated with the hydromassage tub shall be bonded together using a copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than No. 8 solid.
Metal parts of listed equipment incorporating an approved system of double insulation and providing a means for grounding internal nonaccessible, noncurrent-carrying metal parts shall not be bonded.

 

[celtic]

Re: switches near tubs?

bradleyelectric CHECK THIS THREAD AGAIN.....I edited out my "main" reply, jw had it correct to the '99.

I'd suggest you contact that seller on ebay (he is in CA), and see if you can get it ASAP - you and the inspector need to be on the same page.

The HO should not be altering your work in any way shape or form. Check that our "assumptions" are right/wrong before talking to the HO.
If the HO has tapered/altered your work, you cannot(should not) be help liable for ANY deficiencies in the work, extra costs to correct deficiencies, etc.
If your man was at fault,well, you do what is best for your company(obviously).

 

[infinity]

Re: switches near tubs?

We actually put the switches outside the room on the same wall as the tub and the inspector says it is in the tub zone. It is just a reach around the wall to get to the switch,

You could install the switch right next to the tub. It is required that it is not within the tub space. It could be 1" outside the edge of the tub and still be compliant. The code does not say that the switch needs to be installed so that it can not be used from inside the tub. It just says that it can't within the tub.

 

[john m. caloggero]

Re: switches near tubs?

I assume the tub in question is a regular bathtub which is emptied after each use, not a spa or hot tub. In that case, there is no distance requirement in the NEC, other than the requirement in section 4o4.4 of the 2002 and 2005 NEC. Infinity has hit the nail right on the head!

 

[bradleyelectric]

Re: switches near tubs?

Went down the job today and saw that my guy had made some box fill problems and had him fix them, along with some other things that could have been done better. it is a little out of his fortay, but he is capable, and learned a few things, so its not something I got upset with him about. Thanks for all responses.