T Poles and finals

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a.wayne3@verizon.net

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Almost 30 years and I thought I had seen it all !!
Today I recieved a call from the CM of one of my sub divisions,a home was tagged(no $ just a correction notice) For what I thought ??? Well it was for a defective gfci device on the T pole for that home ......How does that equate into holding up a final inspection for a home ??? So now I replaced a $5.00 receptacle but for $5.00 closing has to be moved back,CM is off the scale,I am furious.....What does this have to do with a final on a home ????????
 
Re: T Poles and finals

I would call this inspector's super as this T-pole has nothing to do with this house. This is another case of a inspector pushing his weight around. this T-pole is it's own building and was most likely installed before the house was there.
Why was he inspecting the T-pole he done this before it had power? he should have been looking at the house.
 
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If I was inspecting the house, I would inspect the house, then upon seeing the pole, I would check the GFCI also as you never know who is using the temporary power. If the GFCI is nonfunctional, I would as an inspector, call the contractor and ask a few simple questions - how long is the pole going to be there - are you using it for other homes- then I would suggest the changing of the unit if the pole was/is to stay. This is how you build working relationships/trust with both sides of the fence. If he does not trust you, what is the reason, but it still does not give a reason to hold the final.

Pierre
 
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Allen to say the least he handled this poorly.He had other better choices.Your company name and most likely number were on the pole,a fast call would have likely got this solved faster if he thought it was being used.Or a big red card taped to the pole warning of the problem.He took the easy way out.Being this was a final the time remaining likely would have been small before power was on in the house.One issue that me and you do know that others don't is that here your final electric and the C.O. could be far apart.So power to the home could be days or even weeks (not likely).What bothers me the most is why did he check that T pole ? Sounds like he was looking for a reason to tag.This is not the first time you have posted about inspectors going a bit on the extreme to tag jobs.And holding up the final electric over this might be overstepping authority.
 
Re: T Poles and finals

Jim I questioned the AHJ today about this.He told me his chief wants all t poles inspected that are installed for that home,since the poco requires a t pole for each home(that way they have a meter to set for it)It is part of the job he is inspecting.I think it is a crock and myself am off the scale on this one.We have had such a sudden growth explosion that they are scrambling to even keep up,so why make matters worse???WE are supposed to have a uniformed code that makes all areas ,work under the same guidelines.But From what I hear we will soon get letters that contradict that and will be informed of addendums soon.Like adding ground rods to a uffer .....What really gets me is that in the same county but east of the expressway there are one set of rule and on the west side there are another set.Same jurisdiction but 2 sets of rules :mad:
 
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Those darn "drive by" inspections. The T pole must have been the easiest thing to look at on his "fast walk thru".

Roger
 
Re: T Poles and finals

Many times GC are to cheap to install a new temp for a lot that is next to the one that was just built on.

IMHO this temp pole does not go with the property it is the GC's property.

It should be tagged if it is a hazard and the AHJ could stop work on the new property???

Is this to simple?

Mike P.
 
Re: T Poles and finals

It has been common for us to use one pole for at least 2 houses.What do they suggest ? set 2 poles next to each other?WHY ? If this T pole was as serious a problem as the inspector seemed to think then why didn't he order poco to turn it off? Or a simple call to your company.Either would have got far faster results.TECO has inspected our poles for as long as i been here.Never seen county even look at them,even tho they were suppose to do it.Not saying they shouldn't inspect but this is a poor way to go about it.A simple DO NOT USE -SHOCK HAZARD sign would have got the GC to take action even faster.
Holding up a final is rediculous.Stopping work would have been within there power.Once again a RED TAG ON FRONT DOOR saying no work till T pole repaired would have been more in line.
 
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I'm not saying whether I agree with the action of the inspector or not, but the AHJ's job is to inspect inspect everything that is part of the permit that was issued. If the T-pole was under permit, and the GFCI doesn't function, it is in violation of art. 527.
 
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Ryan ,just how would you have handled this.Being you discovered a serious problem,just what would be the fast way to solve this.Liability was on the EC alone untill you found this.Do you now share liability?
 
Re: T Poles and finals

Hi Jim. In my area, the meter has been set prior to the final inspectio. With that in mind, the T-pole is basically irrelevant.

When I roll onto a job and the 2 pole GFCI breaker has been removed and a non-compliant breaker installed, I give two days notice to have it re-installed or the job will get a stop work order. If that doesn't work, the POCO is called and the meter is removed.

Now, if I were doing a final that didn't have a meter set and the T-pole was enrgizing the structure, I would write it up on the first time inspection, and I expect to have it functioning properly for the re-inspection.
 
Re: T Poles and finals

In Tampa other than some rare cases we can not get the meter set until all finals have passed and a CO is issued.In this case Allen was being given a final inspection and since no violation were found with the home then it should have received a final electric .While i will not say it is safe having a non functioning gfci on the T pole,this action to hold up the final inspection was beyond professional ethics.Yes demand it fixed in a very short time or turn it off.Tag it to warn workers,maybe even with a do not use.While his final does not mean all work is completed,it most likely was missing very little from a CO.
I have seen violations severe enough that a STOP WORK order is placed on the home,but not over something like this.
More than likely there is some underlying reason for this new policy to check our T poles.The normal thing here is the poco inspects these 70 amp poles and turns them on.On the larger poles county inspects.
This like any new item they start picking on,i am sure they will have there crew leader check the gfci on every visit now,i know i will.The cost involved over holding up finals can get steep and this could have been avoided
 
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Jim,I see that you don`t do much work in pasco county.City of Tampa/hillsboro county you can have 1 pole for 2 homes but with Withlachoochie electric They require a pole at each lot for the meter to be transfered to that lot.Roger they by no means do a drive by inspection,they take apart vanity fixtures to ensure a connector is installed
we have even had 1 inspector go into the trash pile on the site and found instructions for a vanity strip well there was a j box in the illustration.Mind you that this was the only one like that all others showed a connector.He opened every fixture until he found it.No $ for the reinspect but he is thourough.I heard that we may go the 3 inspection route Rough,power on, and then a final release.I hope they do that.By the time we get a meter its maybe a week before the house closes.If there is a delay at the end well homeowners tell you everything that doesn`t work.We can get a power on inspection if there is allot of hardwood going in then its for gfci receptacles and A/C only (yeah right) :roll:
 
Re: T Poles and finals

Mostly do city of Tampa.The few i done in Pasco have been single homes and fire restoration.With homes with exspinsive wood cabinets and real hardwood floors we can push for early power but thats rare.Have had a few of them deep inspections,taking things apart,but not very many.They know i have a box behind every vanity light.The hardest ones i ever found was in St Leo
in Lake Jovita, that guy will spend hours looking for something to flunk.Even makes up his own codes.
The last thing i ever want is for a customer to move in and find problems.In Naples i used a generator to hot check,fix everything long before even the GC knows about it :D

[ February 06, 2004, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: T Poles and finals

When I was in NC, we had 2 inspections--rough-in and final. The final was when the inspector would release the service to the poco. Only then did we get a meter on the house. Inthe mean time we used the temp on the pole. Some of the contractors used the "suicide cord." :)
 
Re: T Poles and finals

tshea we also used hot check cords until a 50 am gfci breaker was required the bonded neutral in the meter does not allow that anymore 50 amp gfci breaker trips.With OSHA out there and safety inspectors on job site we have to wait till we get a meter to hot check,I don`t like it but I dont like califlower either
 
Re: T Poles and finals

Does anyone know of a way to come off of them 50 amp gfci T Poles to temp hot check.While this isnt a great thing to be doing it beats fixing stuff after customer moves in.
 
Re: T Poles and finals

Jim aren`t those called homeowner hot checks,they tell you everything that doesn`t work ( only kidding ) I asked that question before and couldn`t get an answer.There has to be a way to use the 50 amp receptacle and back feed the dryer or range receptacle in the home without having it trip the gfci on the tpole.Some type of blocking diode so the gfci doesn`t sence the grounded neutral and trip.I would pay for that answer....
 
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Not sure if it would work but how about a small isolation transformer???? :confused: :confused: Even if all we could do is get 120 volts ,maybe from the 120 gfci.Other than that i think we all know the only other way and we won't talk about that here.The real bad thing is after the customer moves furniture in.And scheduling to repair.We had a customer that wanted the irrigation 120 single receptacle, mounted with off set nipple under panel removed because the HI said it was dangerous.This simple 5 min job logged 2 trips and dam near 2 hours on the clock.I never want a customer finding anything wrong.They automatically think the whole house has a problem from day one.
 
Re: T Poles and finals

I can't see any way to use a GFCI to hot check a new house. Even a single pole would trip because of the GEC or a EGC connected to the water lines or gas line. this could be through the hot water heater or other appliance's to do this the electrical would have to be isolated from any EARTH connection and the EGC in the feeder cable could not be connected as this would cause a neutral to EGC fault which would be picked up by the GFCI as a ground fault. I cant see how they could require you to use a GFCI to hot check if it wont work. A isolating transformer would work but any connection from the primary to the secondary would trip the gfci too. and this could be the path through the earth. (GE to GE)
 
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