Tac Weld the 2" LB's closed

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The AHJ has no control of anything on the line side of the service point and needs to understand that, just like the utility needs to understand that they have no control over anything on the load side of the service point with the exception of their meter and the physical support point of the service drop.
 
buckofdurham said:
This is a good suggestion. I'll try that.

The service is underground coming up to the gutter.
I will do it next week.

Mean while in an other juriiisdiction. I used two pvc LB's today above the meter up to the weather head.
I didn't think twice about it. If some one wanted to make a tap. They would go above the weather head any way.
My neutral is the same size as my hots. In an LB you can't tell which is which. (THHN)Can you imagine trying to tap off these on a live circuit. I guess it could be done.
Take a plastic drill stand on a fiberglass ladder. Drill a self tapper in to the wire with a one hole lug on it. I'm just trying to picture what the poco is thinking.
I'll let y'all know what happens.
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Went out on a call one day where the guy tried to drill through his bedroom wall and into the riser (yes that's what he was trying to do not just drilling a hole in the wall). I was there to help the fire department with their follow up as well as the POCO. None of us has any idea what he was going to do once he got the hole drilled.:smile:

I would have a problem with you welding the LB covers, not so much as an inspector, because yes it is the POCO side, but I would think that there could be a chance of damaging the insulation of the wire with either the heat or possibly with the arc getting under the cover. Just my opinion though.
 
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I can take apart arc welds, does that mean they are not welds?
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A proper arc weld melts each piece of steel and they cool along with the wire or stick material as one. You are not going to take apart a weld and leave a clean surface without a grinder. A small tack weld will pull off without too much damage.

You can however take apart a PVC "weld" cleanly because the pipe/fittings are not really fused together.

Just different definitions of "weld" I guess.
 
Take a look at 16.10 in this link:

http://books.google.com/books?id=WU2CJVHu2joC&pg=PT482&lpg=PT482&dq=pvc+solvent+weld+polymer&source=web&ots=6GVDdI63-G&sig=yxpEk5VG9PxIHG3dWLhiNRop50s&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPT482,M1

Every bit of information on the web says that solvent welding causes the poylmers to disolve in the PVC and intermingle. They then fuse as one piece after the solvent evaporates. I'm sure it's possible to create a joint where the fusing doesn't happen, but it seems clear that a good solvent weld does in fact chemically join the two pieces.

One man's opinion.

Mark
 
220/221 said:
You can however take apart a PVC "weld" cleanly because the pipe/fittings are not really fused together.
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Then the joint was not made right.

I will stop here, we will remain in disagreement and live happy lives anyway. :)
 
iwire said:
Jim, can the power company seal the meter enclosure closed?
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Yes they can and it does not violate nec if the can is made to take a seal (most if not all will be ).This LB was not designed to be sealed.They can simply say no to the LB.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Yes they can and it does not violate nec if the can is made to take a seal (most if not all will be ).This LB was not designed to be sealed.They can simply say no to the LB.
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Where can I find the section in the NEC that permits the meter to be sealed? It appears sealing a meter violates 300.15(A).

The fact is in areas where power companies have these rules in place like sealing troughs shut that contain unmetered service conductors the inspectors are aware of it and allow it.

Of course if an inspector took a hard line and said 'no you can not seal those LBs' the power company could refuse to hook up. The end result of this would be the EC would have to rework the pipe and remove the LBs altogether.

The power company can not force anyone to do anything as long being without power is OK. :grin:
 
The meter is poco owned so they can seal it.The can is yours but has slot for tag.I hardly would call that tag a lock.The LB was never designed to be tack welded or sealed and would violate code.In case like the OP i would talk to the inspector,likely he will bend a little.In event that wire ever needed repulled it be no big deal to replace it.
 
Every bit of information on the web says that solvent welding causes the poylmers to disolve in the PVC and intermingle.
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Well, here is some more info that is now on the web.

They only "intermingle" on a very minute level which allows the pieces to come apart with relative ease when one piece is it cut. It leaves a very clean surface which can be re used.

Jeez people. Get out in the field and TRY it. You can't learn everything from books.
 
Yes, to tamper proof screws on pvc lb's

Yes, to tamper proof screws on pvc lb's

The POCO engineer said yes to tamper proof screws or grind the heads.
He did say however try to eliminate any LB's if possible.
So in a couple of the 400 amp meter bases (320's) I will cut a 2" hole on the side up very high near the top.
I will have to use a WP lock nut with rubber on it. With 3/0 cu I should have plenty of bending room.
In some case I will 90 in to the top of the gutter with a Myers Hub.

The gutters are here, we're all set to go.
They will shut the power to 16 meters Wednsday.
I will turn them in to 8 meters feeding two150 amp panels for each meter.
The other 8 will be turned in to 4 meters Thursday. Thursday's apts.. are occupied. So will have the power on that night.
 
220/221 said:
Jeez people. Get out in the field and TRY it. You can't learn everything from books.
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Why? I can buy new fittings cheaper than the labor spent trying to open a welded joint, of course this may differ depending on the pay scale.

Roger
 
buckofdurham said:
The POCO engineer said yes to tamper proof screws or grind the heads.
He did say however try to eliminate any LB's if possible.
So in a couple of the 400 amp meter bases (320's) I will cut a 2" hole on the side up very high near the top.
I will have to use a WP lock nut with rubber on it. With 3/0 cu I should have plenty of bending room.
In some case I will 90 in to the top of the gutter with a Myers Hub.

The gutters are here, we're all set to go.
They will shut the power to 16 meters Wednsday.
I will turn them in to 8 meters feeding two150 amp panels for each meter.
The other 8 will be turned in to 4 meters Thursday. Thursday's apts.. are occupied. So will have the power on that night.
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How does tamper proof screws help ? Anyone stealing power would simply buy the screw driver.Solved nothing.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
How does tamper proof screws help ? Anyone stealing power would simply buy the screw driver.Solved nothing.
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it helps make the poco engineer happy so you can get the job done and get paid;)
 
Why? I can buy new fittings cheaper than the labor spent trying to open a welded joint
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Duh...remodel/rework/repair. I'm not suggesting reusing old pieces to save a buck. IE: If you had a coupling stubbed up flush in a slab and the conduit was broken/cut flush with the coupling, would you hammer out the concrete or remove the broken piece of conduit from the coupling?

These situations present themselves often....to me at least.

In my plumbing days I often had a choice between rebuilding a complete manifold or peeling the broken pipe from the fitting.
 
220/221 said:
Duh...remodel/rework/repair. I'm not suggesting reusing old pieces to save a buck. IE: If you had a coupling stubbed up flush in a slab and the conduit was broken/cut flush with the coupling, would you hammer out the concrete or remove the broken piece of conduit from the coupling?
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With some hesitation, I feel compelled to point out that there's a tool for that. The plumbers call it a "socket saver", but Carlon makes one now for electricians too.
 
220/221 said:
If you had a coupling stubbed up flush in a slab and the conduit was broken/cut flush with the coupling, would you hammer out the concrete
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Why not, it's service work and I would assume you would be paid accordingly, I know I would.

Anyways, yes I have done it, and I say it's a weld.:)

Roger
 
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