taking over work done by another engineer

[mshields]

We're doing design work to fix the problems caused by the original design. We are at a significant disadvantage insofar as the client never received CAD files from the form engineer. Typically, is an owner entitled to those CAD files or at a minimum and better still, to the CAD file version of the as-builts?

 

[dkidd]

It depends on the Contract.

"as-builts", don't make me choke.

 

[ron]

Typically, is an owner entitled to those CAD files or at a minimum and better still, to the CAD file version of the as-builts?

As mentioned it depends on the Contract signed.

For example AIA-B104 Section 7.3 allows the Owner to have use of the "Instruments of Service" as long as the Contract is in compliance, such as payment for service.

 

[GoldDigger]

If the contract does not mention the electronic files it could be argued that the CAD files are intermediate work product and not final deliverables.
And depending on the circumstances of the change the first engineer may do his best to limit his co-operation.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[MyCleveland]

I'm sorry, my computer crashed last night and all files were lost.
Thankfully you have the last PDF's that were issued.

 

[Jraef]

If the previous Engineer was not paid for the work, he should not be expected to hand over documentation.

I hate that kind of work, it never ends well. You have a client who is ALREADY PO'd at "the engineer", now you are "the engineer".
From your standpoint, you are "the NEW engineer", but from his standpoint you are one of "them" and eventually transference of aggression takes place. I have never seen it otherwise. Whenever I am asked, my first course of action is to contact the previous engineer and get his opinion. It often results in reconciliation with the owner, but from my standpoint its better than stepping into someone else' pile of s--- ...

Good luck, you'll need it.

 

[Ingenieur]

yep
based on contract or settlement/close-out negotiations

 

[mgookin]

If there was an elecgtronic submittal for a permit you can ask AHJ what files are in that file. You never know what's going to get uploaded in those files. It's a long shot but might be worth a phone call.

 

[Ingenieur]

If there was an elecgtronic submittal for a permit you can ask AHJ what files are in that file. You never know what's going to get uploaded in those files. It's a long shot but might be worth a phone call.

That's a good idea
even though most drawings have legal disclaimers about distribution without consent these may be considered public record
file a foia request

 

[templdl]

I'm sorry, my computer crashed last night and all files were lost.
Thankfully you have the last PDF's that were issued.

Damn those Russians again.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Whenever I am asked, my first course of action is to contact the previous engineer and get his opinion.
It often results in reconciliation with the owner, but from my standpoint its better than stepping into someone else' pile of s--- ...

.
thank you.

a candid conversation with the previous pack mule can be worth
a lot before you let the saddle be thrown over your back.

and let's be honest.... if something has turned to p00, those
cad files are probably a mess... i'm thrilled when i open up
someone's work, find six missing xrefs, and it won't plot, and
elements of the drawing have no clear strategy of the layer
they were drawn on.

i'd rather spend ten minutes getting them to kiss and make up,
and move on to something that doesn't look like the bottom of
a parakeet's cage.

 

[Ingenieur]

Is the work being assumed before being completed (in progress)?
or after being completed and paid for?
sounds like the later since as-builts were referenced

do you want the drawings for reference or to use and incorporate into your work?

we don't know who is at fault in this dispute (if any exists)
is the owner seeking a new engineer or is doing so because the old one told him to find one?
did the owner change scope or give bad direction?

in PA it is against the code of ethics for a PE to criticize anothers work
especially without discussing with him first

 

[dkidd]

in PA it is against the code of ethics for a PE to criticize anothers work
especially without discussing with him first

Where in Chapter 37 or Act 367 do you find that?

 

[Ingenieur]

Where in Chapter 37 or Act 367 do you find that?

http://www.dos.pa.gov/ProfessionalLicensing/LicensingServices/2015/EngineerFebruary2015 - Copy.pdf

The Engineer, Land Surveyor and Geologist Registration Law (Act 367) includes under Section 4 (g) a "Code of Ethics" for engineers, land surveyors and geologists practicing in the Commonwealth. Section 4 (g) entitled, "Suspension and Revocation of Licenses; Registrations and Certificates; Reinstatements", specifically empowers the Board to discipline any registrant guilty of misconduct in the practice of these professions. A violation of the Code of Ethics will be considered by the Board as misconduct in the practice of these professions.

(2) To attempt to injure falsely or maliciously, directly or indirectly, the professional reputation, prospects or business of anyone.

(5) To review the work of another engineer, land surveyor or geologist for the same client, except with the knowledge of such engineer, land surveyor or geologist, or unless the connection of such engineer, land surveyor or geologist with the work has terminated.


this is held to mean
don't criticize another's work: just repair it
treat it like a difference of professional opinion/practice, not a screw up

if the work is in progress and the client has sought a second opinion, contact the previously engaged engineer

I retained a lawyer for my firm who was expert in these matters
West Point, civil engineer
2 tours viet nam
MS
PE
taught college level engineering
retired early after 17 years due to injuries at lt col
went to law school
practiced for >25 years specializing in construction, engineering litigation, etc
I met him when he was giving a lecture on ethics/law in a grad school project management course

 

[dkidd]

I don't read "criticize" in there, and there is an or "or unless the connection of such engineer, land surveyor or geologist with the work has terminated. "

 

[Ragin Cajun]

Be nice to hear again from the original poster.

Knowledge of what went sour in the client/owner relationship would help. Were there late changes, non payment of fees, poor contractor, unauthorized changes in the field, etc.?

We were approached to pick up design on a government hospital that was half constructed! Without going into details, we RAN as fast as we could away from it.

RC

 

[Ingenieur]

I don't read "criticize" in there, and there is an or "or unless the connection of such engineer, land surveyor or geologist with the work has terminated. "

same thing

that references reviewing: we don't know the state of the work: completed/in progress?
if in progress must consult with the engaged engineer
either way, in progress or completed, still can't criticize it when doing so, only offer your opinion on how you would have done it

 

[GoldDigger]

It is interesting that either false or malicious statements are prohibited. US libel law requires a statement to be both false and malicious.

"He maliciously told the truth" is not actionable.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[steve66]

, or unless the connection of such engineer, land surveyor or geologist with the work has terminated.

Sounds like once the first engineer is no longer working on the project, you can slander him all you want.

Ok, maybe you can't go that far, and I really wouldn't recommend criticizing another engineers work, but I'm not seeing how that paragraph applies once the first engineer has bee let go.

 

[dkidd]

It is interesting that either false or malicious statements are prohibited. US libel law requires a statement to be both false and malicious.

It says to "attempt to injure" ... "the professional reputation, prospects or business of anyone"

The statements are only prohibited if there is intent.