Tamper Resistant Receptacles

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dana1028

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San Francisco Bay area
A question came up on an inspection: Do the receptacles located inside the medicine cabinet have to be tamper resistant [medicine cabinet came with the receptacles already installed (and listed) by the mfr.]?

406.11 refers us to the receptacles required in 210.52 => 210.52(D) makes a requirement for at least one receptacle installed within 3' of the outside edge of each basin [2008 NEC].

As an inspector my response was: 'Since you have met the requirement of 210.52(D), I don't believe those receptacles inside the cabinet must meet the TR requirement.' [i.e. 'go for it.']:thumbsdown:

Now you can bash me for being a softy.
 
dana1028 said:
A question came up on an inspection: Do the receptacles located inside the medicine cabinet have to be tamper resistant [medicine cabinet came with the receptacles already installed (and listed) by the mfr.]?

406.11 refers us to the receptacles required in 210.52 => 210.52(D) makes a requirement for at least one receptacle installed within 3' of the outside edge of each basin [2008 NEC].

As an inspector my response was: 'Since you have met the requirement of 210.52(D), I don't believe those receptacles inside the cabinet must meet the TR requirement.' [i.e. 'go for it.']:thumbsdown:

Now you can bash me for being a softy.
Click to expand...

You are looking for reasons to PASS an inspection not reasons to FAIL an inspection.

John120/240 said:
If the medicne cabinet is listed, I say TR not required. Still need GFCI protection.
Click to expand...

Why GFCI?

dana1028 said:
Thanx for the GFCI reminder - I'll be sure to verify, but I believe the med cab is being supplied through the lav GFCI recep.
Click to expand...

Only bathroom on this circuit.
 
jxofaltrds said:
You are looking for reasons to PASS an inspection not reasons to FAIL an inspection.

I'm not sure what you are saying. As an inspector I look for reasons to either pass or fail an inspection - if a job is installed per code it passes, if a job is not installed per code it fails. I believe the medicine cab receps do meet the code requirement and thus does pass....I thought I might get some code nazis that disagreed with my logic.

Why GFCI?
Because 210.8(A)(1) says ALL receps in a bathroom must be GFCI protected.


Only bathroom on this circuit.
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Is that an: "only this bathroom allowed on this circuit or only receptacles in any of the bathrooms are allowed on this circuit response?
 
dana1028 said:
Is that an: "only this bathroom allowed on this circuit or only receptacles in any of the bathrooms are allowed on this circuit response?
Click to expand...

If the GFCI feeds another (different) bathroom receptacle then the medicine cabinet can not be on that circuit.

Also if it is 'in' the cabinet does it have to be GFCI protected? Is this any different than a receptacle under a sink.

Do I think that a good electrician should GFCI protect it? Yes! Can an inspector require it? Not sure.
 
jxofaltrds said:
If the GFCI feeds another (different) bathroom receptacle then the medicine cabinet can not be on that circuit.

Also if it is 'in' the cabinet does it have to be GFCI protected? Is this any different than a receptacle under a sink.

Do I think that a good electrician should GFCI protect it? Yes! Can an inspector require it? Not sure.
Click to expand...

Mike all receptacles in bathrooms are required to be GFCI protected, There are no exceptions to 210.8(A)(1)

(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and
20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in
(1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection for personnel.
Click to expand...

The above in red is very clear and 210.8(A)(1) just says bathroom, there are no exceptions to receptacles under a counter or in a cabinet like in a kitchen where the code only requires receptacles serving the counter top to be protected.

The same goes for outdoor receptacles as well as garages and un-finished basements.

Also 210.11(C)(3) does not distinguish between a receptacle located in a cabinet or on a wall, it requires that the 20 amp bathroom receptacle circuit to serve all the receptacles in bathroom(s), if this circuit only serves one bathroom then it can also serve the lights and or other items in this one bathroom, but it can always serve the receptacles.

3) Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number
of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at
least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to
supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall
have no other outlets.
Click to expand...

Note the (s) on the end of the word "outlet"

So if the receptacle is in the confines of a bathroom it applys, even if it is in a cabinet it is still accessable only from the bathroom not another room.
 
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Think about this, since the NEC has removed the exceptions in 210.8 with your above thinking, we would be allowed to put a freezer in the garage then build a cabinet around it and then say it is no longer in the garage??? I would think not.
 
hurk27 said:
Mike all receptacles in bathrooms are required to be GFCI protected, There are no exceptions to 210.8(A)(1)



The above in red is very clear and 210.8(A)(1) just says bathroom, there are no exceptions to receptacles under a counter or in a cabinet like in a kitchen where the code only requires receptacles serving the counter top to be protected.

The same goes for outdoor receptacles as well as garages and un-finished basements.

Also 210.11(C)(3) does not distinguish between a receptacle located in a cabinet or on a wall, it requires that the 20 amp bathroom receptacle circuit to serve all the receptacles in bathroom(s), if this circuit only serves one bathroom then it can also serve the lights and or other items in this one bathroom, but it can always serve the receptacles.



Note the (s) on the end of the word "outlet"
Click to expand...

1st he did not install a receptacle. He installed a cabinet that happens to have a receptacle in it. Should we GFCI it? Yes. is it required? that is what we are debating. If between studs is it in the room? Yes it is installed and in the room.

210.11(C)(3) only deals with the ONE required circuit. It does not require additional receptacles to be on that circuit or require them to be 20 AMP.
it allows more than one recptacle on that circuit but does require ALL to be on that circuit. If this is false then I could not install an in the wall ironing board in a bath.
 
hurk27 said:
Think about this, since the NEC has removed the exceptions in 210.8 with your above thinking, we would be allowed to put a freezer in the garage then build a cabinet around it and then say it is no longer in the garage??? I would think not.
Click to expand...

What if it was in a closet 'off' a garage? GFCI? Not in the garage. AFCI? Not 'in' the house.
 
jxofaltrds said:
1st he did not install a receptacle. He installed a cabinet that happens to have a receptacle in it. Should we GFCI it? Yes. is it required? that is what we are debating. If between studs is it in the room? Yes it is installed and in the room.

210.11(C)(3) only deals with the ONE required circuit. It does not require additional receptacles to be on that circuit or require them to be 20 AMP.
it allows more than one receptacle on that circuit but does require ALL to be on that circuit. If this is false then I could not install an in the wall ironing board in a bath.
Click to expand...

Most med cabs we install now if they have a receptacle they will have separate leads and the instructions will even say to install them on a GFCI protected circuit.

Nothing in this code section says we can't install more circuits, but if we do they become bathroom receptacle circuits (BRC's) by virtue of serving receptacles in the bathroom, the same goes for the kitchen if we install extra 20 amp circuits to serve other counter top receptacles are they not still considered SABC's? same goes for a dinning room.
The definition of a circuit is by where it serves, if it serves the laundry room and or equipment it is then a laundry circuit and is required to follow the rules of a laundry circuit, if you run another circuit to the laundry room to serve a ironing board is it still a laundry circuit?

jxofaltrds said:
What if it was in a closet 'off' a garage? GFCI? Not in the garage. AFCI? Not 'in' the house.
Click to expand...

That could be a gray area but the code does say "un finish areas at or below grade" so it seems mute
 
hurk27 said:
Most med cabs we install now if they have a receptacle they will have separate leads and the instructions will even say to install them on a GFCI protected circuit.

Nothing in this code section says we can't install more circuits, but if we do they become bathroom receptacle circuits (BRC's) by virtue of serving receptacles in the bathroom, the same goes for the kitchen if we install extra 20 amp circuits to serve other counter top receptacles are they not still considered SABC's? same goes for a dinning room.
The definition of a circuit is by where it serves, if it serves the laundry room and or equipment it is then a laundry circuit and is required to follow the rules of a laundry circuit, if you run another circuit to the laundry room to serve a ironing board is it still a laundry circuit?



That could be a gray area but the code does say "un finish areas at or below grade" so it seems mute
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Disagree. A lighting circuit in a bath is not required to be 20 AMP and it is required to be there. Same with the laundry.

If I had a circuit in the kitchen, the laundry and the bath what is it called?

I think of a closet as finished!?
 
I'm in the middle of trying to get the inspectors to approve the recepticle in the medicine chest as the required one right now . There saying because it is behind a door it doesn't meet the requirements , I'm saying the rquirement doesn't say anything about that other than with in 3 ft of basin, Any help on this from ya'll? Sorry to go off topic but the listing label on these require that they be on a gfci circuit, so yes it needs to be protected per manufactor.
 
andyselec@aol.com said:
I'm in the middle of trying to get the inspectors to approve the recepticle in the medicine chest as the required one right now . There saying because it is behind a door it doesn't meet the requirements , I'm saying the rquirement doesn't say anything about that other than with in 3 ft of basin, Any help on this from ya'll? Sorry to go off topic but the listing label on these require that they be on a gfci circuit, so yes it needs to be protected per manufactor.
Click to expand...

I am assuming that this installation is in a dwelling? If so, you are not reading 210.52 very closely.

210.52 Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets. This section
provides requirements for 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacle
outlets. The receptacles required by this section
shall be in addition to any receptacle that is:(1) Part of a luminaire or appliance, or
(2) Controlled by a wall switch in accordance with
210.70(A)(1), Exception No. 1, or
(3) Located within cabinets or cupboards, or
(4) Located more than 1.7 m (51⁄2 ft) above the floor

210.52(D) Bathrooms. In dwelling units, at least one receptacle
outlet shall be installed in bathrooms within 900 mm (3 ft)
of the outside edge of each basin. The receptacle outlet
shall be located on a wall or partition that is adjacent to the
basin or basin countertop, located on the countertop, or
installed on the side or face of the basin cabinet not more
than 300 mm (12 in.) below the countertop. Receptacle
outlet assemblies listed for the application shall be permitted
to be installed in the countertop.
Informational Note: See 406.5(E) for requirements for installation
of receptacles in countertops.
 
IMO, the TR is not an issue however it may still be required. With the 2011 NEC it seems clear that receptacles 5'6" above the floor do not need TR, nor do receptacles that are part of an appliance or luminaire. I would stretch this meaning and be a softy also. The intent is to keep kids from getting into it so I think the receptacle in the cabinet over the sink would satisfy the intent
 
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