Tamper resistant Replacement knob tube

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You don't look so tough anymore...:D. Geez you are almost kissable:D:D:D
 
If that is the case why have atricle 406.3 (3)(a). Why didn't they delete it for 2008 code cycle. I am trying to understand this article and I am not being a smart ass. I have a job starting next week that is all knob and tube wiring. We will replacing the service and putting GFIC where needed. That is why I asked the inspector at last meeting.
 
guschash said:
If that is the case why have atricle 406.3 (3)(a). Why didn't they delete it for 2008 code cycle. I am trying to understand this article and I am not being a smart ass. I have a job starting next week that is all knob and tube wiring. We will replacing the service and putting GFIC where needed. That is why I asked the inspector at last meeting.
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I believe the article was left in because someone may make TR 2 wire receptacles. They may not have anticipated that they wouldn't make it. With that said if your inspector allows you to replace the original with a non TR recep then I say go for it. Some of the inspectors in my area are also saying the same as your inspector said.
 
Some of the inspectors around here are a little lenient about 100% code compliance when it comes to Knob &Tubing. The thinking behind this is that doing as little as possible to disturb a K&T circuit is often safer than making it code compliant. Using common sense to come up with the safest solution often trumps referencing a book that barely addresses K&T.
 
iwire said:
I strongly disagree, there is nothing in 406.3(D) that says we can ignore 406.11.

The fact no one currently makes a two wire tamper proof receptacle has nothing to do with it. Until such time as two wire TR receptacle available the replacement will have to conform to 406.3(D)(b) or (c).
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Okay, speaking from a position of ignorance on this - are you requiring me to meet 2008 code when I repair a faulty component in a K&T circuit. Beyond the unusual 406.3(D) that calls out replacement options, are you escalating a $3.00 part replacement to a $300 circuit upgrade base on 406.11? If I find a bad wire nut in the circuit do I have to upgrade the circuit to meet 2008 code? Where/what is my break point?

iwire said:
I understand, and I am going by the NEC. :smile:

Let me ask you this.

If you run an entire new 15 amp 125 volt circuit to area that requires AFCI protection can you ignore 210.12 if there is no AFCI breaker made for the existing panel?
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So I can't get a $300 wiring job done in my house unless I sign up for a $3000 remodelling upgrade? Cause if I have to upgrade that panel then local code is gonna kick in and say the whole house has to meet code. So that means rewiring the whole house.

I'm not trying to be mean but I was under the impression that repairing circuits did not require renovation. I really don't want to justify being a slumlord simply because minor repairs force whole home remodelling every code cycle. I'm truly confused. :confused:
 
pfalcon said:
Okay, speaking from a position of ignorance on this - are you requiring me to meet 2008 code when I repair a faulty component in a K&T circuit. Beyond the unusual 406.3(D) that calls out replacement options, are you escalating a $3.00 part replacement to a $300 circuit upgrade base on 406.11? If I find a bad wire nut in the circuit do I have to upgrade the circuit to meet 2008 code? Where/what is my break point?



So I can't get a $300 wiring job done in my house unless I sign up for a $3000 remodelling upgrade? Cause if I have to upgrade that panel then local code is gonna kick in and say the whole house has to meet code. So that means rewiring the whole house.

I'm not trying to be mean but I was under the impression that repairing circuits did not require renovation. I really don't want to justify being a slumlord simply because minor repairs force whole home remodelling every code cycle. I'm truly confused. :confused:
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I wonder if Iwire is ever gonna answer this question. ;)
 
brother said:
I wonder if Iwire is ever gonna answer this question. ;)
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I have answered the question.

And if you don't agree with how I answered it that is fine but you will not have a leg to stand on come the 2011 as they will clear it up for those that feel they can avoid the TR requirements.
 
pfalcon said:
Okay, speaking from a position of ignorance on this - are you requiring me to meet 2008 code when I repair a faulty component in a K&T circuit. Beyond the unusual 406.3(D) that calls out replacement options, are you escalating a $3.00 part replacement to a $300 circuit upgrade base on 406.11? If I find a bad wire nut in the circuit do I have to upgrade the circuit to meet 2008 code? Where/what is my break point?
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Where did you get that?

I was talking about using a non TR replacement on K&T.

All you would have to do is install a GFCI TR receptacle and mark it 'No Equipment Ground' if you can get $3,000.00 for that well I guess good for you.

As far as entirely new circuits in existing homes that the panel can not accept an AFCI breaker well you would have to add a sub panel that will accept AFCI breakers.
 
iwire said:
I have answered the question.

And if you don't agree with how I answered it that is fine but you will not have a leg to stand on come the 2011 as they will clear it up for those that feel they can avoid the TR requirements.
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Not saying I completely disagree, but I can see the point of some argueing that its ok of replacing a non t.r. with a non t.r. 2 wire. I did see the proposals for the 2011 and I think its good they are clearing that up. By the way I guess I missed your answer to that guys question, cause I did not see the response.

I suppose this means that they will STOP making 2 wire non grounding receptacles, seeing how they will become useless.
 
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iwire said:
Where did you get that?

I was talking about using a non TR replacement on K&T.

All you would have to do is install a GFCI TR receptacle and mark it 'No Equipment Ground' ...
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Okay, that clears up the first part.

iwire said:
...
As far as entirely new circuits in existing homes that the panel can not accept an AFCI breaker well you would have to add a sub panel that will accept AFCI breakers.
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As to the second, you're going to drop in a subpanel at what markup over simply adding a new circuit? Some of these old houses shared the bathroom circuit with the bedroom circuit. Hairdryers and hairstylers pop breakers regularly. 2005 I pay for a new circuit. 2008 I have to add the cost of a new subpanel with AFCI breakers.

I think I have this sorted out now.
 
pfalcon said:
Okay, that clears up the first part.



As to the second, you're going to drop in a subpanel at what markup over simply adding a new circuit? Some of these old houses shared the bathroom circuit with the bedroom circuit. Hairdryers and hairstylers pop breakers regularly. 2005 I pay for a new circuit. 2008 I have to add the cost of a new subpanel with AFCI breakers.

I think I have this sorted out now.
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As others said, maybe the Ahj will let you slide. ;)
 
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