Tap Rule

[brian john]

I asked this in another post, but received no responses. just curious.

For inspectors where do you draw the line with the 10' and 25' taps? At 10'1" or just a visual guesstimate?

My point was/is, I can see fudging the 10 feet or 25 feet some, but in my experience it is abused to the point of being a non-existent rule and in most cases these are new jobs, located in the Main Electric Room, and have been inspected.

 

[jflynn]

, but in my experience it is abused to the point of being a non-existent rule and in most cases these are new jobs, located in the Main Electric Room, and have been inspected.

I have seen this many times also...

 

[SEO]

The code states per art 240.21 taps not over 10' long and taps not over 25' long. Anything over these measurements is a violation! The code is the minimum allowed. I as well as many others have seen this section violated and approved. I would write a violation even if it were 1" over the limit. Any violation no matter how small is still a violation .

 

[radiopet]

I call it CYA......I write it up and if they wish to appeal it or take it above my head then I am fine with that.....it then removes me from the picture.

 

[joebell]

I would write a violation even if it were 1" over the limit. Any violation no matter how small is still a violation .

I understand what you are saying but how would you know it is 1" beyond the required footage? You would actually measure each conductor?

Joe

 

[joebell]

I asked this in another post, but received no responses. just curious.

For inspectors where do you draw the line with the 10' and 25' taps? At 10'1" or just a visual guesstimate?

My point was/is, I can see fudging the 10 feet or 25 feet some, but in my experience it is abused to the point of being a non-existent rule and in most cases these are new jobs, located in the Main Electric Room, and have been inspected.

Brian

I am not an inspector but I agree with you about "fudging" the length within reason.

Within Reason= acouple inches not a couple feet.

Joe

 

[augie47]

I "eye" it, sometimes I simply verify with the electrician, ocassionly I will make a measurement as best I can. I'm confident a few slip by.
In my experience, only a small % are borderline, if the electrican knows the rule. If he doesn;t then it's usualy obvious on the job.

 

[SEO]

I understand what you are saying but how would you know it is 1" beyond the required footage? You would actually measure each conductor?

Joe

If there is any doubt that the conductor is over max allowed I will measure the conductor or have the contractor measure with me. It doesn't seem like an inch would make a difference but when an insurance claim is made for any reason the investigators point fingers at any violation that they can find and I don't want to sit in court and explain why I approved a known violation.

 

[joebell]

It doesn't seem like an inch would make a difference but when an insurance claim is made for any reason the investigators point fingers at any violation that they can find and I don't want to sit in court and explain why I approved a known violation.

Valid point

Joe

 

[cowboyjwc]

The other one that's hard to check is when they paralel conductors, unless they are three different lenghts, because it looks neater.:smile:

 

[SEO]

The other one that's hard to check is when they paralel conductors, unless they are three different lenghts, because it looks neater.:smile:

I agree that paralleled conductors have to be measured as well. If the phase conductors are of different lengths they will carry unequal current on each phase conductor. Ex. Phase A , B and C have 4 conductors each in 4 seperate conduits one 20' one 22' one 24' and one 26'. The shortest of each phase conductor will carry the most current the the longest the least.

 

[brian john]

SEO do not bet on it. I have been involved into numerous parallel feeder controversies where the electrician went out of their way to measure exactly and still there were current differences. Conductor routing plays into this also.

 

[SEO]

SEO do not bet on it. I have been involved into numerous parallel feeder controversies where the electrician went out of their way to measure exactly and still there were current differences. Conductor routing plays into this also.

I agree there are many factors involved ,conductor routing different raceways etc. But you can keep amperages closer to the same if you keep conductors the same length. I would be curious to hear the differences in amperage of the conductors that you had controversies on. Length of conductor and max extreme on amperage. (high to low)

 

[brian john]

The last job was a while ago and the issue started when we did IR during acceptance testing and found a loose connection which lead to amperage readings. Then the engineer started question readings, the contractor swore all conductors were the same length. Based on measurements at both ends we were able to determine conductors were close to the same lenght. The engineer had the EC reconnect the terminations, conductors were routed differently as best as possible. and reading changed but still off from the perfect balance the engineer was hoping for.

BUT the differences were insignificant in my opinion as they were well within the rating of the cable at maximum expected load.

 

[RUWired]

I asked this in another post, but received no responses. just curious.

For inspectors where do you draw the line with the 10' and 25' taps? At 10'1" or just a visual guesstimate?
.

Brian, i would venture to say that unless the tap conductors are small <1/3, compared to the main conductors, a lot of the 10' taps can actually be extended to the 25' mark.

Rick

 

[brian john]

RU:

Typically 2000-4000 amp services. 1/3 is 1/3 but not to all electricians.

I asked one electrician and he told me "that is expensive and difficult to comply with." I did not disagree, just asked where he drew the line on compliance to the NEC.