tap rules in bathrooms.

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And even if you appeal to a fixture wire exception (instead of a general tap rule) you still have to find and use #14 fixture wire. That will probably be more expensive that #12 THHN.

Tapatalk!
 
What difference would it make if he had a short piece of #12 from the switch to a JB and then a #14 whip to the fixture or just eliminate the #12 and the JB and go right from the switch to the fixture with the whip?
 
Because the bathroom is being fed with a #12 because it's a 20amp circuit. And if I understand right you cannot make a fixture whip, a fixture whip is something that comes with the fixture.

Such as when you order your 2x4's with whips then you are allowed the 6' for strapping. If you wire it with MC cable, that is not considered a whip.
 
We make fixture whips all of the time with 3/8" FMC and either #16 or #18 fixture wire. You are permitted by the NEC to make your own whips.
 
hardworkingstiff said:
So the OP could install a raceway from the light to the switch and install #18 TFFN (up to 50') or #16 TFFN (up to 100'), but not allowed to install #14 THHN at any length?
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If the raceway was flex (more than 6') would he have to install 12 awg grounding conductor together with #18 TFFN (up to 50') or #16 TFFN (up to 100') ?
 
jjflash said:
i would just please like someone to point out the exact code that says i can't even with exceptions.
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The section you are trying to use doesn't allow you to do so.

Lets go through it a little more carefully.

210.19(A)(1) tells us the conductor shall have an ampacity not less than the load to be served (you meet this requirement so far)

(A)(2) doesn't apply
(A)(3) doesn't apply
(A)(4) refers us to 210.2 which gives us other articles that may allow differences - your application is not mentioned in 210.12 no further research necessary on this particular road
it does give us a limit of no smaller then 14 AWG (you meet this requirement so far)

Exception does mention taps to luminaires and also sends us to 410.117, which limits us to 18 inches and in suitable raceway or AC/MC cable (sounds like that would be too long for your intended application at the very least)

Second exception if for fixture wires and flexible cords - without looking I'm pretty sure you will not be allowed to use flexible cord that is concealed in building finish and will not pursue flexible cord any further unless you are serious about possibly using it.
Fixture wires? Read art 402.10 and 402.11 and tell us if you think you can use fixture wires from a typical wall switch location to the
luminaire - I don't think so.

I don't see this section specifically permitting what you want to do, has a few paths to follow but each one ends up not allowing it or is eventually nullified by the general overcurrent protection rules in art 240.
 
infinity said:
The 6' limitation is for the aforementioned 3/8" FMC {348.20(A)(2)} but you're correct, if you use larger than 3/8" flex you could have a whip longer than 6' although support rules would apply.
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would not 410.117 indicate that once you exceed 6 ft. it is branch circuit wiring. we call them fixture whips. but a tap is limited to 6 ft. once a whip exceeds six ft. the branch circuit rules kick in its no longer a tap
 
david said:
would not 410.117 indicate that once you exceed 6 ft. it is branch circuit wiring. we call them fixture whips. but a tap is limited to 6 ft. once a whip exceeds six ft. the branch circuit rules kick in its no longer a tap
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The fixture wire is not limited to 6' by 240.5(B)(2). The code does not specify the wiring method to be used with the fixture wires.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The fixture wire is not limited to 6' by 240.5(B)(2). The code does not specify the wiring method to be used with the fixture wires.
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Exactly, if you use the very common 3/8" FMC for the whip then 348.20(A)(2) limits the raceway to 6' otherwise there is no limit on the raceway itself.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The fixture wire is not limited to 6' by 240.5(B)(2). The code does not specify the wiring method to be used with the fixture wires.
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I agree that 240.5(B) (2) applies to fixture wire in general. But this section is for recessed and flush mounted fixtures. I know it may have had more usefulness when 60 deg C insulation was more common for branch circuits. if cold leads (heat sink) between the fixture and the branch circuit was needed why the six foot limitation on the tap conductors with the higher temp. rating.

Are you saying that 410.117 does not say that there is a six ft. tap limitation to recessed and flush mounted fixtures.

I am not making the general statement that fixture wires are limited to six ft. this section does seem to say that a tap to supply flush and recessed fixtures has a six ft. limitation without stating any such limitation if the correct temp branch circuit conductors extend directly to the fixture.

If this section is pretty much out dated since the introduction o 90 Deg C. insulation should it not be deleted from the NEC.
 
david said:
would not 410.117 indicate that once you exceed 6 ft. it is branch circuit wiring. we call them fixture whips. but a tap is limited to 6 ft. once a whip exceeds six ft. the branch circuit rules kick in its no longer a tap
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david said:
I agree that 240.5(B) (2) applies to fixture wire in general. But this section is for recessed and flush mounted fixtures. I know it may have had more usefulness when 60 deg C insulation was more common for branch circuits. if cold leads (heat sink) between the fixture and the branch circuit was needed why the six foot limitation on the tap conductors with the higher temp. rating.

Are you saying that 410.117 does not say that there is a six ft. tap limitation to recessed and flush mounted fixtures.

I am not making the general statement that fixture wires are limited to six ft. this section does seem to say that a tap to supply flush and recessed fixtures has a six ft. limitation without stating any such limitation if the correct temp branch circuit conductors extend directly to the fixture.

If this section is pretty much out dated since the introduction o 90 Deg C. insulation should it not be deleted from the NEC.
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410.117 is under part X of 410 - Special Provisions for Flush and Recessed Luminaires. It does not apply to all luminaires in general. the 60 vs 90 deg does not necessarily outdate it IMO, there are many recessed type luminaires that have higher then 90C rated conductors used for this tap we are discussing because the temperature at the lampholder is expected to be higher then what a 60 or 90C conductor can handle.

Most cases this rule is already taken care of in a listed assembly and we really don't have to worry about complying with it.
 
All I know is that I googled the subject and found this on EC&M website
Code Q&A
Aug 21, 2008Mike Holt | Electrical Construction and Maintenance

Q. What is the smallest size wire you can use for a lighting fixture whip?
A. Fixture wires as small as 18 AWG are allowed to run from the luminaire to an outlet box, as long as the conductors are not more than 6 feet long [410.117(C)], and they are connected to a circuit rated not more than 20A [240.5(B)(2)].
 
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