Taping (Identifying) ungrounded #6

[LarryFine]

Instead of running out to the store, you pull in two lengths of black (#6) and wrap some red tape around the ends of one run.

You don't even have to do that.

 

[LarryFine]

What colors do you use to identify 208/120 3 phase feeders and branch circuits?

Anything I want except white (or gray) or green. Traditionally, I use black, red, and blue.

What do you use for 12/3 NM or MC?

Black, white. red, and green or bare, the way it comes. If the white is to be a hot, it gets anything except gray or green.

 

[mark32]

You could pull the two #6 blacks and not mark them at all if you wish, especially for a 2 wire 240 volt AC circuit. Why would you need to know which one is which? If they get swapped the load will still work the same.

True that, the thought didn't cross my mind even though I've done it in the past.

 

[jetlag]

I have never wired a building that red was not commonly used. What colors do you use to identify 208/120 3 phase feeders and branch circuits? What do you use for 12/3 NM or MC?

huh , I use red black and blue for 3 phase y , that is not what he is marking , mn and mc 12/3 allready have a red black and white , who would any one remark those ?:roll:

 

[curt swartz]

huh , I use red black and blue for 3 phase y , that is not what he is marking , mn and mc 12/3 allready have a red black and white , who would any one remark those ?:roll:

Huh??? You said red is not a good choice since it is used for other things but then you state that you do use red wire.

What do you think he is trying to do? He wants to pull 2 black UN-grounded conductors to a piece of equipment and re-identify one of them red. That is code compliant and done all the time. Please point out where in the NEC this is not permitted. If you were going to pull these 2 conductors what colors would you use?

 

[jetlag]

Huh??? You said red is not a good choice since it is used for other things but then you state that you do use red wire.

What do you think he is trying to do? He wants to pull 2 black UN-grounded conductors to a piece of equipment and re-identify one of them red. That is code compliant and done all the time. Please point out where in the NEC this is not permitted. If you were going to pull these 2 conductors what colors would you use?

I use red for other things like mark all 3 phases . I never said red was against the code, you can use all you want. We were talking about marking #6 with tape , not about small factory cables with colored wires. People often use red for delta high leg because they dont have any orange and things often get fried by someone not knowing it is a high leg to neutral . I never said I would not put red on one of the 2 conductors he has, I just said I would rather use yellow or some other color.

 

[LarryFine]

People often use red for delta high leg because they dont have any orange and things often get fried by someone not knowing it is a high leg to neutral.

Like the one using the red tape. :roll: Tape is too cheap to not have an assortment of colors.

We carry black (of course), red, blue, white, green, and orange at all times; others if . . .

Plus, Sharpies for re-coloring white conductors in cables. I just like them better than tape.

 

[jetlag]

Like the one using the red tape. :roll: Tape is too cheap to not have an assortment of colors.

We carry black (of course), red, blue, white, green, and orange at all times; others if . . .

Plus, Sharpies for re-coloring white conductors in cables. I just like them better than tape.

I doubt they would be that cheap , probably dont know the code that well and just assume red is a good color for a high delta leg . Not sure of all the reasons but I see it a lot so I have learned to question it especially if the system is delta. Some get confused since red is a phase color for Y system.

 

[jetlag]

Huh??? You said red is not a good choice since it is used for other things but then you state that you do use red wire.

What do you think he is trying to do? He wants to pull 2 black UN-grounded conductors to a piece of equipment and re-identify one of them red. That is code compliant and done all the time. Please point out where in the NEC this is not permitted. If you were going to pull these 2 conductors what colors would you use?

Read post #2 by 480 sparky on " insulation colors " red has specific uses in the code the same as orange, brown , light blue and others , I was just saying I would rather use those colors for the specfic use so I would know what they represent when I see them in a building I wired , I never said those colors could not be used elsewhere.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Read post #2 by 480 sparky on " insulation colors " red has specific uses in the code the same as orange, brown , light blue and others , I was just saying I would rather use those colors for the specfic use so I would know what they represent when I see them in a building I wired , I never said those colors could not be used elsewhere.

...and no one else is ever going to work in this building other than you?

The use of red for the high-leg is not permitted, regardless of how many times one may see someone else perform such feats. As a matter of fact, I see this as a dangerous situation and I would correct it if I was working there. [110.15]

 

[jetlag]

...and no one else is ever going to work in this building other than you?

The use of red for the high-leg is not permitted, regardless of how many times one may see someone else perform such feats. As a matter of fact, I see this as a dangerous situation and I would correct it if I was working there. [110.15]

I dont know what you are talking about, I dont care who else works there, my colors are correct . I dont use red on delta high leg , I use orange . I said red on high leg is used by other people and causes things to get fried. I wish I had never said any thing about red tape , or blue or green or anything else.

 

[kwired]

...and no one else is ever going to work in this building other than you?

The use of red for the high-leg is not permitted, regardless of how many times one may see someone else perform such feats. As a matter of fact, I see this as a dangerous situation and I would correct it if I was working there. [110.15]

from 110.15:

shall be durably and permanently marked by an outer finish that is orange in color or by other effective means

orange in color is pretty definite but other effective means could be anything. I don't know the intent of why this section was worded as is but my guess is if using a color only as identification it must be orange if other effective means it could be anything besides a single coloring that effectively identifies it.

I dont know what you are talking about, I dont care who else works there, my colors are correct . I dont use red on delta high leg , I use orange . I said red on high leg is used by other people and causes things to get fried. I wish I had never said any thing about red tape , or blue or green or anything else.

The only colors for conductor identification that are mentioned in the NEC are white, gray, green, green with yellow stripes and orange for high leg delta systems.

 

[roger]

The only colors for conductor identification that are mentioned in the NEC are white, gray, green, green with yellow stripes and orange for high leg delta systems.

Not true, brown, orange, and yellow are required for isolation power systems, see 517.16. I am not in front of a code book at the moment but, blue as well as a few others are also mentioned for heat controls.

Roger

 

[480sparky]

............The only colors for conductor identification that are mentioned in the NEC are white, gray, green, green with yellow stripes and orange for high leg delta systems.

As a general rule, yes. But scope out 400.22(C), 424.35, 504.80(C) and 517.160(A)(5), which all mention a specific conductor colors.

(Edit to add: Roger beat me to it.)

As a side note, from 1937 to 1975, the NEC did specify conductor colors as a rule.

 

[jetlag]

Not true, brown, orange, and yellow are required for isolation power systems, see 517.16. I am not in front of a code book at the moment but, blue as well as a few others are also mentioned for heat controls.

Roger

I tried to tell them , but I got pounded for saying I rather keep those colors for those uses, red is also mentioned for 3 phaseY and a/c controller.Light blue is in the code also. Why is everyone so upset if I reserve those colors for those uses , I never said anyone else has to do it my way. I trained under my dad when some colors were the rule for certain uses.

 

[kwired]

517.160(A)(5) requires orange brown and yellow with a distinctive colored stripe.

400.22(C) mentions light blue, but if is for jacketed cords furnished with an appliance - not field installed conductors.

424.35 is for lead wires on heating cables, these are likely to be factory installed and not field wiring.

504.80(C) is the only place I see with a color code for field installed wiring and it is an option, not a requirement according to how it is worded. If you want to use light blue for the purpose you can not use light blue for anything else.



I withdraw this statement:

The only colors for conductor identification that are mentioned in the NEC are white, gray, green, green with yellow stripes and orange for high leg delta systems.

And change it to:

The only colors for general use conductor identification that are mentioned in the NEC are white, gray, green, green with yellow stripes and orange for high leg delta systems.

 

[roger]

517.160(A)(5) requires orange brown and yellow with a distinctive colored stripe.

What difference does the "with" make? Until the 2008 the stripe was not required but the colors have been in place for awhile in previous cycles


Roger

 

[kwired]

What difference does the "with" make? Until the 2008 the stripe was not required but the colors have been in place for awhile in previous cycles


Roger

Getting back to the OP and to those that feel that there is a color code for certain voltages, there is not. With a stripe pretty much limits you to purchasing a conductor with a stripe on it instead of just using marking tape on the ends.

The OP could have a three phase load or multiple loads and run all one color of conductors if he wishes except for grounded and grounding conductors or high leg if the grounded conductor is present. If he has only one voltage system, he could identify them any he wishes, and that identification is for him to be able to tell which conductor is which on each end of the raceway not what voltage and phase each conductor is.

I often run multiple circuits in raceways and especially for motor circuits and I would rather see 3 blacks to motor 1, 3 reds to motor 2, 3 blues to motor 3. There is almost no confusing which conductor goes to what load that way. If the motor runs the wrong direction reverse 2 leads at any convenient point on the circuit. If you get a motor rotation reversed when you have identified each phase differently then you have to re-identify which doesn't work if the identification is not tape, labels, tags and you still have to do it at every point necessary. I don't like to climb 150 foot grain elevator leg just to re-label or change rotation of motor when it is easily done at the breaker or starter at ground level.