tapped to parking lot light poles

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Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

iwire,
Thank you. I was getting real lost there. So the discussion was wether or not inline fuses would satisfy the disconnecting means at the pole?

Just so you know, I realize this is not a perfect scenario. 50 from handhole to pole is crazy, but there is imminate domain, a municipal entity, and a very large company involved. Things are bound to become messy.

Homacer
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

sorry to hijack your thread Homacer.

Thanks george and iwire. i now understand better.

Since the tail from the fuse holder is less than 10 feet, the tap rule ends at the fuse. So tagging the circuit out at the panel, after moving the boxes :) can be the requred disconnect once again.

Since the OP just mentioned the ground boxes being a good distance from the poles, I might suggest full size conductors to the pole hand hole and placing the fuses there.
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

Originally posted by jbwhite:
Thanks george and iwire. i now understand better.
Click to expand...
Thanks for maintaining patience while we worked it out. It can get hard to keep our cool, it feels good when that happens. :)

...after moving the boxes :)
Click to expand...
What do you mean by this?

I might suggest full size conductors to the pole hand hole and placing the fuses there.
Click to expand...
50' of 4/0 CU is quite an investment for 3 amps of load. ;)

[ January 15, 2006, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

Homacer, I too apologize for the side-track. :)

What size conductors are you planning on using from the vault to the pole? What kind of disconnect are you planning on installing on the pole?
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

Originally posted by georgestolz:
What size conductors are you planning on using from the vault to the pole? What kind of disconnect are you planning on installing on the pole?
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I would not even think about adding an disconnecting means.

I would install the fuses and move on.

As is the case in thousands of site poles perhaps due to 240.10.
:)
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

george I meant move the cardboard boxes in the store room from infront of the panel.

sorry for the confusion.
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

I agree iwire, done it this way many times with fuses in the hand hole at the pole.

But this guy is talking about 50 feet from ground box,(where the tap is made) to the pole. IMHO he needs full size circuit wires to the pole base and fuses, or needs to place the fuses in the ground box.
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

I was planning on using #4 xhhw for my tap wire, which is the max this circuit is rated for ( 70 amp breaker back at the main panelboard) The 4/0, as I stated before is sized that way for voltage drop, based on the load of all poles.

Each pole is to get a fusible, handle throw disconnect, as is typical with all poles at this complex. That was what was agreed upon, and I don't have a problem with it.

With the max load at each pole being around 3 amps, I believe I could go much smaller in wire size with this installation, but I think using #4's is not all that difficult, and might save alot of arguing.

Homacer
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

Originally posted by iwire:
As is the case in thousands of site poles perhaps due to 240.10. :)
Click to expand...
But that section states that the fuses can't serve as a replacement for BC OCPD? So the 4/0 would have to be a "branch circuit", but wouldn't it run awry of 210.19(A)(4), being on a 70 amp breaker?

If he's going to use 240.21(B)(5), he's either gonna need to install a disconnecting means, or sell his AHJ that that fuseholder is acceptable.

At any rate, he indicated he was going to install a disconnecting means, I was curious about the conductors feeding it and what it was. I've got my own mental picture, and I was curious what his was. ;)
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

Originally posted by Homacer:
I was planning on using #4 xhhw for my tap wire
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That is not a tap conductor. It is protected against overcurrent in accordance with it's ampacity.

You're so legal, it ain't even funny.

What size fuses are you throwing in the disconnect?
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

Originally posted by georgestolz:
Originally posted by iwire:
As is the case in thousands of site poles perhaps due to 240.10. :)
Click to expand...
But that section states that the fuses can't serve as a replacement for BC OCPD? So the 4/0 would have to be a "branch circuit", but wouldn't it run awry of 210.19(A)(4), being on a 70 amp breaker?
Click to expand...
The branch circuit breaker is back at the panel.

Let me ask you, how many times do you see disconnect switches on the site poles at the mall?

That aside good design has the fuses at the bottom of the pole base or in each fixture.
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

Homacer needs to read the defination of a tap.

That could have saved us a bunch of fun posts.
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

I am sorry jbwhite. I apologize for taking up your time. I thought I was clear with my first two post. If I wasn't, I am sorry.

If guess I misinterpated the definition of a "tap".
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

Originally posted by iwire:
Originally posted by georgestolz:
Originally posted by iwire:
As is the case in thousands of site poles perhaps due to 240.10. :)
Click to expand...
But that section states that the fuses can't serve as a replacement for BC OCPD? So the 4/0 would have to be a "branch circuit", but wouldn't it run awry of 210.19(A)(4), being on a 70 amp breaker?
Click to expand...
The branch circuit breaker is back at the panel.


Let me ask you, how many times do you see disconnect switches on the site poles at the mall?

That aside good design has the fuses at the bottom of the pole base or in each fixture.
Click to expand...
George

I never said that this was a "mall". This is an industrial complex, with these light poles being in a parking lot, albeit a large one.

I hope my questions have not been too mcuh trouble

Homacer
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

Originally posted by Homacer:
I am sorry jbwhite. I apologize for taking up your time. I thought I was clear with my first two post. If I wasn't, I am sorry.

If guess I misinterpated the definition of a "tap".
Click to expand...
it is usually me who is wrong :D
might be me this time :D

but in the end we all learn here.
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

He did say in his second post that his "taps" would be rated for at least 70 amps. In NH, most of the parking lot setups I've seen had PVC stub-ups come into the pole through the concrete bases. Then, the feeder is tapped by a 12 or 14 AWG wire and fused inline at the bottom pole handhole or at the top with the ballast. I've seen it dozens of times. In fact, I've seen it a lot without the inline fuses :mad:
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

Homacer

You have not caused anyone any problems, we are all big boys here and make our own decisions. This is a good thread.

I do not see the need to use 4 AWG at the tap, as long as you follow one of the tap rules in 240.21(B) that fit your installation.
 
Re: tapped to parking lot light poles

Thank you to everyone that was involved. I learned alot from the discussion. I continue to learn new things in this industry, everyday, and this site alot.

Homacer
 
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