Tapping the dryer circuit

Merry Christmas
Status
Not open for further replies.
Are condos considered multi-family dwellings?

Are condos considered multi-family dwellings?

Not sure how to use the "quote" box, but the question was asked "Are condos considered multi-family dwellings or are they a bunch of single-family dwellings?"

Most would be considered Multi-family per NEC definitions, depending upon construction style. Take a peek at the definitions for multi - family dwelling units and for a dwelling unit in 100.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
post #28
paul said:
post #22
Absolutely, it's the inspector's job to check that all the required circuits by the code are installed.

He would know this by looking in the laundry room and identifying the two circuits. If they can't figure it out, they should be doing something else. However, inspectors are human and occasionally they miss things. This sounds like a huge "OOOPS" to me, but nothing a sawzall and some sheetrock/taping can't fix.
Click to expand...

Wrong,its his job to site observed violations.He is not certifying your work is to code or will even work.Your the EC do your job and dont pass it off on him.
Click to expand...

??.. its his job to site observed violations?
I agree

?He is not certifying your work is to code ?..?
I agree

??.. or will even work?
I agree

?Your the EC do your job and dont pass it off on him?
I agree

Jim W in Tampa said:
paul said:
Absolutely, it's the inspector's job to check that all the required circuits by the code are installed.
Click to expand...
Wrong, ?..
Click to expand...
I disagree. . It is part of the inspectors job to check for the circuits required in 210.11(D).

paul said:
However, inspectors are human and occasionally they miss things.
Click to expand...

I agree. . And if he misses something, that doesn?t eliminate your obligation under the law to fix the mistake.

David
 
sfav8r said:
In the mean time, I am considering installing a 20a receptacle tapped off the dryer circuit. If I feed it with #10 wire and it's approved for #10 wire, is this OK? I have read the previous posts and it seems as though its a firm "maybe." I'm curious if there are any more opinions out there and possibly some code references.

One thought I had is that the 20a receptacle is rated for 20a. Is it legal to use it with a 30a breaker even if it is rated for #10 wire. I know I can use 15a receptacles on a 20a circuit.
Click to expand...


This is not a permitted installation. 210.21(B)(3), 210.21(B)(1)
And this does not conform to the tap rules of 240.21(B) or 210.19(A)(4)ex#1
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
This is not a permitted installation. 210.21(B)(3), 210.21(B)(1)
And this does not conform to the tap rules of 240.21(B) or 210.19(A)(4)ex#1
Click to expand...

Pierre, thanks for the references. I agree it is not allowed, however it appears that if you used a 30a receptacle it would be allowed If the total load of the washer and dryer did not exceed 24 amps.

I was thinking of other possible solutions that would not require tearing out sheet rock back to the panel which is 40' away. I originally did not consider taking power from the bedroom receptacle on the opposite side of the wall since the laundry circuit must be a dedicated 20a circuit. But now that I think about it, if the AHJ has determined that 210.52(f) is not a requirement in this building, it seems that I should be able to add "additional" outlets that are 15 or 20 amps and not dedicated circuits.
 
I recently went to a service call on a mixed use building. High rise in downtown, brand new facility. The owner of one of the $750,000, 800 sq/ft condos wanted to change out his stacked unit. He needed a 120 volt outlet. Guess what?....none available. I wondered to myself, "Where in the h*** is the required outlet?" Panel was on the other side of the condo and there was no way of adding the circuit without opening up sheetrock

After some phone calls into researching the situation, I found out that the GF wanted to cut all costs they could. So they eliminated the circuits as well as many other circuits in this facility. They did so legally and went though the city, who has jurisdiction. These are down and dirty as far as the electrical goes. The customers aren't getting what they paid for so that the sellers can line their pockets.
 
Ben Trueblood said:
Gentlemen,
I have a customer who did not know when he designed his plan that his stackable washer and dryer would need a seperate 110V outlet. He thought it was (1) 30 Amp Plug. We ran 10/3 copper with ground as required. The question is there anything in the code that will allow me to tap off of the existing 30 Amp circuit to get him the seperate 110V outlet he needs.
Click to expand...
Why not place a 4-space panel on the 10/3 supplying the dryer receptacle, and install a 30a 2p breaker and a 20a 1p breaker?

This would make the 10/3 a feeder. Then you can supply a 30a receptacle for the dryer and a 20a receptacle for the washer.

It should be easy enough to determine which line conductor carries the dryer motor, and put the 20a breaker on the other line.

Added: Note: You might even use a 2-space 4-circuit panel and a quad 30a/20a to save space if needed.
 
Last edited:
jwelectric said:
stickboy1375 said:
So whos gonna pay for all the spoiled meat in the basement freezer when that gfi trips...???
Click to expand...

Are you saying that the meat wasn't paid for before it was put in the freezer?
Was it stole?
Click to expand...

Detective Pit Bull is on the case ! :wink:
 
stickboy1375 said:
Quick question, is it really the inspectors job to say whats missing in a rough in? How would he really even know what the electrician did?
Click to expand...


I try to find it all at rough, but......"Stickman" Amen!,thank you and "Sparky" knew better.
 
JohnConnolly said:
Like ONE other poster suggested.....get a different unit.

MOST of the stack units I have installed are 30A 240V.

Keep it simple.
Click to expand...

I've only seen one unit like that and it happened to be my own... :) most front loaders today are stackable, so you better rough in a dryer and washer receptacle...;)
 
LarryFine said:
Why not place a 4-space panel on the 10/3 supplying the dryer receptacle, and install a 30a 2p breaker and a 20a 1p breaker?
Click to expand...

What about the feeder load? The default values typical where I live would be 5000VA for the dryer and 1500VA for the washer. That would be 2500 + 1500 = 4000VA on one leg, or 33.3A.
 
One poster said it's the inspectors job to catch a lack of a 20amp circuit in a laundry room. I cry BS on that. It costs how much for a permit? How many hours should this guy scrutinize a job done by licensed professionals? The inspector insures you are licensed. Does a quick overview of the project. He's not their to baby sit the hackers and those that shouldn't be doing electrical work. The homeowner should sue the electrical contractor or make him install the required by code circuit.
 
hmspe said:
What about the feeder load? The default values typical where I live would be 5000VA for the dryer and 1500VA for the washer. That would be 2500 + 1500 = 4000VA on one leg, or 33.3A.
Click to expand...
True enough, but the heater element is the only component of a dryer that uses both lines. If the washer is one one line and the dryer motor (and timer, light, etc.) is on the other, the loading on each line will be lower than 30a.
 
wireman71 said:
One poster said it's the inspectors job to catch a lack of a 20amp circuit in a laundry room. I cry BS on that. It costs how much for a permit? How many hours should this guy scrutinize a job done by licensed professionals? The inspector insures you are licensed. Does a quick overview of the project. He's not their to baby sit the hackers and those that shouldn't be doing electrical work. The homeowner should sue the electrical contractor or make him install the required by code circuit.
Click to expand...

That could backfire.The ec might eliminate the dryer outlet and turn it into a 120 and breaker it at 20.
 
LarryFine said:
True enough, but the heater element is the only component of a dryer that uses both lines. If the washer is one one line and the dryer motor (and timer, light, etc.) is on the other, the loading on each line will be lower than 30a.
Click to expand...

Are you sure that only the heating element is line to line? On every dryer from every manufacturer? Are you sure that will be the case in the future?

You could physically have the dryer and washer motors on different legs on the initial install by using the dryer's wiring diagram, but what about 5 years later when they replace the unit? Do you leave an engraved plaque by the dryer receptacle saying that the installer has to verify that the dryer motor is on L1? There's also no mechanism to assure that the L1 terminal in the dryer actually gets connected to L1 in the panel, especially when it's the delivery guy from Best Buy installing the whip.

Being on the engineering side I'd use nameplate data for the calculation. I haven't looked at a lot of dryer nameplates, but those I have seen don't break the load out separately for each leg.

Martin
 
Martin,

Those are legitimate questions and maybe answers will be posted but I think it's important to ask what is the likely worst case scenario if the dryer is replaced. . Isn't the likely worst case scenario that the breaker will trip ?

That doesn't seem that bad to me.

David
 
If i see a 30 amp 240 receptacle i assume it to be able to supply 30 amps with no limits and that 120 volt be able to provide 20 if its in a washer location.Will it work if sub panel is installed ? Well for last year i was forced into that situation while we remodeled.It did trip several times but we managed.I blame most of that on a piggyback breaker 20/30 30.The breaker tripping was never the 2 pole 30 feeding that sub panel.But that did not make it legal or righ ,it sinply worked.Fixed now
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top