Taxed or not?

[Oakey]

I am guilty of not getting this done...I just made copies of the form and will do so now. I dunno how this got away from me

 

[celtic]

We're all guilty of something

 

[satcom]

Hi guys, I am doing a federal pacific rip out and replace for a home, same amperage, updating grounds, reusing service cable and meter, etc..Would this be considered an nontaxable upgrade or a taxable repair. Thx for any help.

The loadcenter replacement would be taxable, next time if it's a 100A loadcenter, use a CHCH 30 space Loadcenter, then it is considered an improvement, the grounding updating would be an improvement.

All improvement jobs we have an st-8 signed, we keep a copy and the customer gets one.

Repairs, keep track of the taxable jobs, and be sure to take credit for the capital improvement, when you file, and file on time, or you will be spanked.

"I guess as long as they don't tax the tea you New Englanders will pay it."

Welcome to New Jersey, Our reps work hard in trenton, it is not easy to decide how tax tiolet paper, by the sheet or by the roll.

Taxes are our all we have left, business and industry are leaving here in record numbers, Hmmm, I wonder why, so pay up, and don't ever be late to file a form, you will be treated worse then a criminal. The sad part of this is the loss of employment, and business failures, and yes the rest of the county thinks were nuts for living with it.

 

[infinity]

The loadcenter replacement would be taxable, next time if it's a 100A loadcenter, use a CHCH 30 space Loadcenter, then it is considered an improvement, the grounding updating would be an improvement.

How would the replacement of a FPE panel not be a capital improvement? It could keep the place from burning down.

 

[goldstar]

If you click on the ST-8 link that Celtic posted the form comes up in PDF format. First off, save it to your computer. Next, you can type in your company info and ID # in the spaces provided. Make (say 12) copies of the first page only then turn them upside down, insert them back into your printer paper feed hopper and print the back sides. Now you'll have copies ready to go.

can some one clarify when my customers and I should be filling out a st-8 form?

You should be filling out the form, signing your name in the "contractor's certification" box and mailing it with your invoices. Have your customer sign it and mail back the original with their payment (they may want to make copies for their own records). These ST-8's are for your records only in case the state decides to audit you.

Should I be doing this here in nj for all of my electrical work?

No. Only for those jobs that are considered capital improvements. For example, if you upgrade the electrical service to a residence that improves the value of the house and as such is considered a capital improvement (ST-8 form). If you go to a house to replace a defective switch or receptacle that is taxable. You charge for the device (no additional tax) and add (7%) tax on your hourly labor.

You will also need a tax ID # from the state. It is usually the same or similar to your federal employer ID #. Sales taxes can be paid "on line" or over the phone. Make sure you have all your info ready before you call or go on line.

 

[satcom]

How would the replacement of a FPE panel not be a capital improvement? It could keep the place from burning down.

Oh, I agree with you 100%, and I consider that an improvement, but if you replace it, with the same main size, and the same number of spaces, it's a replacement, I went thru this, discussion with the tax division, upgrade the amps or increase the spaces, and your making an improvement, even if you increase the spaces, on a 100a panel from 12 to 20 spaces it's an improvement.

New Jersey is now checking tax records back 10 years, looking for the slighest mistake, or errors in records, if anyone would question that, just PM me and your welcome to look at the penalty payments, and notices we get, just be one day late on filing a return and your looking at $100 penalty, they just increased the penalty amounts. They are out for blood the way it looks.

 

[Oakey]

I was wondering ,If a EC replaces a main panel with the same size and amperage (swap) are they required to get a permit for the repair? I have a customer with a rusty panel who failed the home inspection. Thx guys

 

[celtic]

I was wondering ,If a EC replaces a main panel with the same size and amperage (swap) are they required to get a permit for the repair?

I'll venture a big YES ~ Permit required.

This might only be the case in my little town...here is an excerpt from the town's website:

Below is a list of projects for which a permit is NOT required. If your project does not appear on the list below, please call the Building Department above to see if you need a permit.

Electrical Permits

* Replacement of any receptacle, switch or lighting fixture rated at 20 amps or less.
* Replacement of receptacles where Ground fault receptacle is required, must be done with a permit.
* Repairs to doorbells, communication systems and motor operated devices.
* Communication wiring in single family residences.
* Replacement of domestic dishwashers
* Replacement of range hoods in single family dwellings.

"If your project does not appear on the list below, please call the Building Department above to see if you need a permit."

LOL ...I'm sure the HO's give a crap

 

[goldstar]

New Jersey is now checking tax records back 10 years, looking for the slighest mistake, or errors in records, if anyone would question that, just PM me and your welcome to look at the penalty payments, and notices we get, just be one day late on filing a return and your looking at $100 penalty, they just increased the penalty amounts. They are out for blood the way it looks.

Just curious, how did the State come to audit you ? Was it arbitrary or did you do something to make their s--tlist ? Once you're on that list you don't get off for about 3 years.

Just a side bar to this topic, the State relies on your honesty to collect sales tax. You pay your sales tax quarterly based on those sales subject to tax. Are you going to be 100% correct in every transaction ? Probably not. There are going to be occasions where a portion (maybe even the majority) of a job is a capital improvement project. If you group everything you do at that job under the capital improvement umbrella and didn't charge sales tax the State is not going to come in and fine you. They don't know what you did on that job and they're not going to have an agent scrutinize every job you do and rummage through your records (unless you somehow made the list Satcom is on). Having said that, if you suddenly stop paying sales tax claiming that everything you do falls under capital improvements, you'll send up a red flag and end up on the list.

BTW, I have a commercial customer who refuses to pay sales tax. I went to the NJ State tax office and explained my situation. I was told that they would not investigate any second party for refusing to pay sales tax. However, should I make the list I would be responsible for paying the taxes my customer refused to pay. What nice people thay have at that office !!!

 

[goldstar]

I was wondering ,If a EC replaces a main panel with the same size and amperage (swap) are they required to get a permit for the repair? I have a customer with a rusty panel who failed the home inspection.

If you merely replaced the circuit breakers that would not be considered a capital improvement. However, replacing the entire breaker panel with a new one (including new breakers) improves the value of the house even though you did not increase the size of the service.

Just curious, did you inspect the rest of the service ? Was the SE cable in need of repair ? If the breaker panel was rusted was the meter pan also rusted ? Sometimes you may believe you're doing your customer a favor by just changing out the panel but if you look at the entire picture you may not be doing them a service by not replacing everything. You don't necessarily have to bump up the service if the size of the house doesn't warrant it. Putting a 200 amp service into a 20' x 20' bungalow is overkill and doesn't do anything more to improve the house than a 100 amp service would.

As far as I'm concerned, when I cut the tag on the meter the onus of responsibility is on me to provide a proper installation. I'm a proponent of the inspection process and third party verification. While I'm confident in my ability to do quality work, keeping it ligit and having an inspector verify that what I did meets code helps me sleep at night.