TEFC motors in Class I, Divison 2

[don_resqcapt19]

I always thought that the code language in 510.125(B)(3) was clear that you could use a TEFC motor in that classification. (with attention to the ignition temperature of the products involved and the operating temperature of the motor)

I was at a presentation from a GE application engineer yesterday, and his position is that any motor used in that classification must be specifically approved by the motor manufacturer for that use.

 

[rbalex]

I always thought that the code language in 510.125(B)(3) was clear that you could use a TEFC motor in that classification. (with attention to the ignition temperature of the products involved and the operating temperature of the motor)

I was at a presentation from a GE application engineer yesterday, and his position is that any motor used in that classification must be specifically approved by the motor manufacturer for that use.

And what did he base that on? It sure ain't Code language.

 

[rbalex]

Basically GE is the only member of the NEMA MG-1 Group to get their motors listed for Class I, Division 2. When they did it with switchgear years ago, OSHA enforced it. They seem to be hoping for a repeat.

 

[rbalex]

I just got off the phone with an old CMP14 buddy. He is still on the Panel. He threw a flag on the GE story. It ain’t true now and won’t be in 2020 either.

 

[MRKN]

<message deleted>

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Thanks Bob.
I sent a note to the presenter with the code language and he was going to send it on their engineering group. His comment, was just that that motors are not suitable for used in that classification unless they are specifically marked as such. He gave nothing technical to back it up.

Maybe their listing is the reason is the reason he said that.

 

[kwired]

Thanks Bob.
I sent a note to the presenter with the code language and he was going to send it on their engineering group. His comment, was just that that motors are not suitable for used in that classification unless they are specifically marked as such. He gave nothing technical to back it up.

Maybe their listing is the reason is the reason he said that.

Simple solution, tell him you won't be using GE motors for such applications

 

[rbalex]

Thanks Bob.
I sent a note to the presenter with the code language and he was going to send it on their engineering group. His comment, was just that that motors are not suitable for used in that classification unless they are specifically marked as such. He gave nothing technical to back it up.

Maybe their listing is the reason is the reason he said that.

You're welcome. I actually just discussed this recently in this thread beginning in Post #19. The only valid "marking" required is detailed in Section 430.7(A)(5).

 

[Wyo721]

TEFC Motor are not listed for the C!D1 or C1d2

TEFC Motor are not listed for the C!D1 or C1d2

The motor has to be listed for the environment they are used in, the Code may not specifically reference this but MSHA has a section in CFR 30 for motors, in order to considered explosion proof. Common sense is you can not install a motor that can create a hazard in the environment they are installed in, simple enough, the listing has to match the classification it is used. Non-Classified motors should not be used in classified locations unless they are listed an tested for that area. My 2 cents worth.

 

[MRKN]

As long as you don't have a centrifugal switch that can arc, internal overloads that can arc, or motor space heater leads that exceed 80% of the lowest AIT, common sense tells me that the motor would not be an ignition source.

 

[kwired]

The motor has to be listed for the environment they are used in, the Code may not specifically reference this but MSHA has a section in CFR 30 for motors, in order to considered explosion proof. Common sense is you can not install a motor that can create a hazard in the environment they are installed in, simple enough, the listing has to match the classification it is used. Non-Classified motors should not be used in classified locations unless they are listed an tested for that area. My 2 cents worth.

If you have some other standard that applies then it depends on what that standard says. The NEC section (OP posted 510.125, but probably a typing error as it is 501.125 and it even allows open type motors as long as the don't have any arcing components or surfaces that normally will exceed ignition temperatures.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The motor has to be listed for the environment they are used in, the Code may not specifically reference this but MSHA has a section in CFR 30 for motors, in order to considered explosion proof. Common sense is you can not install a motor that can create a hazard in the environment they are installed in, simple enough, the listing has to match the classification it is used. Non-Classified motors should not be used in classified locations unless they are listed an tested for that area. My 2 cents worth.

Class I, Division 2 does not require explosion proof equipment unless that equipment has arcing contacts. A 3 phase motor does not have arcing contacts.

 

[rbalex]

The motor has to be listed for the environment they are used in, the Code may not specifically reference this but MSHA has a section in CFR 30 for motors, in order to considered explosion proof. Common sense is you can not install a motor that can create a hazard in the environment they are installed in, simple enough, the listing has to match the classification it is used. Non-Classified motors should not be used in classified locations unless they are listed an tested for that area. My 2 cents worth.

Have you seen a motor that is listed for Class I, Division 2? They do exist, but didn’t until about 15 years ago. MSHA is rightfully concerned about Class II motors, no matter what the Division - but so is everyone else.

 

[petersonra]

Class I, Division 2 does not require explosion proof equipment unless that equipment has arcing contacts. A 3 phase motor does not have arcing contacts.

This is what the 2017 NEC says.

501.125 Motors and Generators.
(B) Class I, Division 2. In Class I, Division 2 locations, motors,
generators, and other rotating electrical machinery shall
comply with (1), (2), or (3). They shall also comply with
(4) and (5), if applicable.
(1) Be identified for Class I, Division 2 locations, or
(2) Be identified for Class I, Division 1 locations where sliding
contacts, centrifugal or other types of switching mechanism
(including motor overcurrent, overloading, and
overtemperature devices), or integral resistance devices,
either while starting or while running, are employed, or
(3) Be open or nonexplosionproof enclosed motors, such as
squirrel-cage induction motors without brushes, switching
mechanisms, or similar arc-producing devices that are not
identified for use in a Class I, Division 2 location.

the code specifically allows the use of either open or enclosed motors that don't have arc producing devices. It does not get much clearer than that.