Telephone voice quality

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I know but the thing is the text and data are not so critical to me, yet the kids wouldn't really mind if they had no voice services. The voice services get more priority so they work in more real time, and the text/data is what is convenient to provide in the extra bandwidth and it is what they want more $$ for, and they can get away with charging more for it because most customers don't realize it actually is easier to handle to some extent,

That is only half correct. Voice gets high priority because of Latency. Latency is kept to 20 ms or less. It would be very difficult to carry on a conversation if there is a 1, 2 or more second delay between the time you spoke and the other end hears it.

As for bandwidth, TEXT takes almost none to speak of but goes a completely different route than voice uses. The highest bandwidth hogs are streaming video and use a lot of equipment and paths to get to you. QOS hierarchy is

1 = Voice
2 = Gaming
3 = Internet
4 = Video
5 = Text

Poor audio on cell phones has multiple causes. The two highest culprit is RF signals and corrupted user cell phone encoder. Nothing you can do about low RF, bu tif someone is telling you that your audio sounds like crap and you can hear them OK, tell the other party to Power Cycle their phone, and turn off all the crap running in the background hogging cpu time. Power Cycling your phone should be done once a day to clean the garbage out especially Apple's crappy OS.
 
Poor audio on cell phones has multiple causes. The two highest culprit is RF signals and corrupted user cell phone encoder. Nothing you can do about low RF, bu tif someone is telling you that your audio sounds like crap and you can hear them OK, tell the other party to Power Cycle their phone, and turn off all the crap running in the background hogging cpu time. Power Cycling your phone should be done once a day to clean the garbage out especially Apple's crappy OS.

Crappiness (or not) of the iOS aside, if the problem is with the encoder, isn't it the transmitter of the crappy signal who needs to do the power cycling instead of the receiver? I don't know a whole lot about such things, but it seems to me that the transmitter is encoding and the receiver is decoding.
 
I agree that if there's crappy voice quality it's the fault of the phone transmitting that signal. I can definitely tell when the caller has a crappy phone or is using a Bluetooth mic. That brings us back to what algorithms the different manufacturers use to encode the voice data. There may be 16-20,0000 Hz available, but the providers definitely want to minimize bandwidth usage for voice calls so they can get as many calls through as possible using the least amount of resources. It's the same phenomenon as MP3 compression - the more you compress, the more distorted the music becomes. Some phones have adjustable compression settings, others don't.

From some of the articles I read the last time I chose a phone, it seems voice quality in smart phones isn't high on the list of important selling points for the manufacturers and even high end, high priced phones like Apple, Samsung etc. give priority to the bells and whistles rather than the voice quality. In this arena, I still believe that Nokia (and now Microsoft) has the best system going.

The main thing about Apple phones that drives me nuts is what they do with moving video images. They get so wavy that I feel like I have motion sickness when watching any movie from an iPhone. What's up with that?
 
One good thing about being an old fart like me is that I got to see a lot of cool bands back in the day. I don't go to many (any?) touring shows any more because of the crowds and the expense. I saw The Allman Brothers (with Duane and Berry) open for Pink Floyd (the Ummagumma tour) in 1971 for four bucks. There were all of maybe 1000 folks in the audience. It went on until after 2AM.

Those were the days, by cracky! :D
1000 in attendance @ $4 today doesn't even pay the basic bills even for a not so well known performer. Guys playing on the street may even collect that kind of money some days.

That is only half correct. Voice gets high priority because of Latency. Latency is kept to 20 ms or less. It would be very difficult to carry on a conversation if there is a 1, 2 or more second delay between the time you spoke and the other end hears it.

As for bandwidth, TEXT takes almost none to speak of but goes a completely different route than voice uses. The highest bandwidth hogs are streaming video and use a lot of equipment and paths to get to you. QOS hierarchy is

1 = Voice
2 = Gaming
3 = Internet
4 = Video
5 = Text

Poor audio on cell phones has multiple causes. The two highest culprit is RF signals and corrupted user cell phone encoder. Nothing you can do about low RF, bu tif someone is telling you that your audio sounds like crap and you can hear them OK, tell the other party to Power Cycle their phone, and turn off all the crap running in the background hogging cpu time. Power Cycling your phone should be done once a day to clean the garbage out especially Apple's crappy OS.
I'll admit I don't know enough about how it all works, but am pretty sure text takes little resources compared to voice - yet it kind of irks me some that they want extra money from customers if they want that service, but like I said most users have no clue what it takes to send that message and are willing to pay extra to be able to do it, so that is part of why they can do it. It is not really that much of a technology advance IMO. Back when we had horrible wireless phone service in the area (compared to now) I did use a pager - a little bit of a step back as I could not send a message back with the pager but it was still a way of sending someone a text message, but the pager service at the time was reliable enough you could be fairly certain I received the message.
 
Crappiness (or not) of the iOS aside, if the problem is with the encoder, isn't it the transmitter of the crappy signal who needs to do the power cycling instead of the receiver?
Yes I just phrased it poorly. My bad. Point is Power Cycle you rphone daily, like first thing in the morning. If you have WiFi at home, when you get home turn off DATA on your phone and turn on WiFi. Data rates should be faster and do you not run up your Data bill on the phone.
 
Yes I just phrased it poorly. My bad. Point is Power Cycle you rphone daily, like first thing in the morning. If you have WiFi at home, when you get home turn off DATA on your phone and turn on WiFi. Data rates should be faster and do you not run up your Data bill on the phone.
My iPhone automatically uses wifi preferentially whenever it sees a network it can log onto, so there's no need to turn cell data off and on. I also have an unlimited data plan from Sprint, so the only time I worry about data usage is when I am out of the country. Then I just make sure data roaming is off so that I only get data over wifi.
 
I'll admit I don't know enough about how it all works, but am pretty sure text takes little resources compared to voice
I though I stated that clearly, text takes almost nothing.

Latency is the issue, not so much bandwidth. They are both some what related. Latency means the round trip time from the time you send data, to the time you receive a response. If you have 1 or more second Latency delay in a voice call is very irritating and can make conversation very difficult, thus voice has the highest priority. Gaming is the second highest priority. Video is buffered so Latency is not much of a problem because you recieve blocks of a few seconds which carry you through Latency delays. Text is the lowest priority because it does not matter if it takes a few seconds to reach the recipient.

Like I said 4G is wireless internet or a pipe all services (Voice & Data) have to share. CDMA and GSM (3G) use two different carriers. One is for voice, and one is for data. For voice 3G is a Switched Technology meaning when you are connected you have a Nailed Hard connection your own private channel much like your land line at home. Think of it like Sara on the Andy Griffith Show on the switch board, an operator that physically connects two circuit together. Switched technology uses way more bandwidth because it uses dedicated xx kb/s of whatever carrier it is using at the time.

With 3G and Switched technology you can only put one pound of crap into a one pound box. The pieces of crap are irregular shaped objects like spheres and stars, so when filled there is a lot of unused space between objects. With 4G you can put 4 pounds of crap into a one pound box because each piece of crap is shaped like a box so you can completely fill the space in the box without spaces. The trade off is with 3G each piece of crap is the same size and you can put up to 28 pieces of crap in the box. With 4G you can put in as many pieces of carp in the box as you want, but as you add more crap, the smaller the pieces have to be so every piece can fit.

With 4G if there are very users online at the time, you can run data speeds up to 25 mb/s. If the carrier is loaded you get cut back to 1.5 mb/s. With 3G if you get a connection, you always have the same 1.544 mb/s speed or whatever the provider supplies you with.

Morro of this story is some years back the FCC took away 700 and 2100 Mhz broadcast TV frequencies from commercial TV because there is hardly any use of UHF TV anymore. The FCC auctioned it off to cell phone carriers. Verizon, ATT, T-Moblie, US Cellular, and Sprint won the lion's share of licenses in that order. Verizon got the biggest chunk of all of them, more than the other 4 combined. Those two bands of frequencies (700 and 2100 Mhz) are the 4G bands. CDMA and GSM 3G operate on 800 and 1900 Mhz bands and will be phased like Analog.
 
I though I stated that clearly, text takes almost nothing.

Latency is the issue, not so much bandwidth. They are both some what related. Latency means the round trip time from the time you send data, to the time you receive a response. If you have 1 or more second Latency delay in a voice call is very irritating and can make conversation very difficult, thus voice has the highest priority. Gaming is the second highest priority. Video is buffered so Latency is not much of a problem because you recieve blocks of a few seconds which carry you through Latency delays. Text is the lowest priority because it does not matter if it takes a few seconds to reach the recipient.

Like I said 4G is wireless internet or a pipe all services (Voice & Data) have to share. CDMA and GSM (3G) use two different carriers. One is for voice, and one is for data. For voice 3G is a Switched Technology meaning when you are connected you have a Nailed Hard connection your own private channel much like your land line at home. Think of it like Sara on the Andy Griffith Show on the switch board, an operator that physically connects two circuit together. Switched technology uses way more bandwidth because it uses dedicated xx kb/s of whatever carrier it is using at the time.

With 3G and Switched technology you can only put one pound of crap into a one pound box. The pieces of crap are irregular shaped objects like spheres and stars, so when filled there is a lot of unused space between objects. With 4G you can put 4 pounds of crap into a one pound box because each piece of crap is shaped like a box so you can completely fill the space in the box without spaces. The trade off is with 3G each piece of crap is the same size and you can put up to 28 pieces of crap in the box. With 4G you can put in as many pieces of carp in the box as you want, but as you add more crap, the smaller the pieces have to be so every piece can fit.

With 4G if there are very users online at the time, you can run data speeds up to 25 mb/s. If the carrier is loaded you get cut back to 1.5 mb/s. With 3G if you get a connection, you always have the same 1.544 mb/s speed or whatever the provider supplies you with.

Morro of this story is some years back the FCC took away 700 and 2100 Mhz broadcast TV frequencies from commercial TV because there is hardly any use of UHF TV anymore. The FCC auctioned it off to cell phone carriers. Verizon, ATT, T-Moblie, US Cellular, and Sprint won the lion's share of licenses in that order. Verizon got the biggest chunk of all of them, more than the other 4 combined. Those two bands of frequencies (700 and 2100 Mhz) are the 4G bands. CDMA and GSM 3G operate on 800 and 1900 Mhz bands and will be phased like Analog.
You were clear enough. Most users still don't have any clue, and don't realize the services they are willing to pay more $$ for are actually less difficult services for their carrier to provide then the voice services. All I meant was I did not know every detail of how it works but did realize to get a decent voice communication it actually takes a little more effort from the carrier then it does for other data transmissions.

So if your text message takes a second longer to transmit you don't notice a thing - it is all there when you receive it no matter how long it took, but if you get delays in a voice transmission --- that don't go over so well with users.
 
You were clear enough. Most users still don't have any clue, and don't realize the services they are willing to pay more $$ for are actually less difficult services for their carrier to provide then the voice services. All I meant was I did not know every detail of how it works but did realize to get a decent voice communication it actually takes a little more effort from the carrier then it does for other data transmissions.

So if your text message takes a second longer to transmit you don't notice a thing - it is all there when you receive it no matter how long it took, but if you get delays in a voice transmission --- that don't go over so well with users.

Speaking of text services - it's good to keep in mind that if you're in an area with bad coverage and there's an emergency, it's better to try and send a text message for help than to make a voice call. You only need a short burst of coverage to get the text message out, but many seconds to make a voice call.
 
Speaking of text services - it's good to keep in mind that if you're in an area with bad coverage and there's an emergency, it's better to try and send a text message for help than to make a voice call. You only need a short burst of coverage to get the text message out, but many seconds to make a voice call.
true, then there are older generation people that maybe have cell phones but never have sent a text message or care to even learn how to. My MIL has never used her voice mail feature - and I'm sure there were messages left for her at some time because if you call and she doesn't answer it tells you the message box is full.
 
Starting in the late 70s and early 80s we spent a lot of time doing MOS (mean opinion score) testing of analog to digital speech conversion techniques. 64 kbit/s PCM (pulse coded modulation) was the standard format used by AT&T and GTE (now Verizon) at the time. This samples the voice circuit 8,000 times per second and generates an 8 bit digital sample for each interval, thus 64 kbit/s.

A 32 kbit/s delta mod codec was also popular with some transmission providers, this sampled voice 32,000 times per second and produced a simple 0 or 1 depending upon whether the waveform was increasing or decreasing in amplitude that sample. Some scaling was done in the encoder and decoder for longer runs of consecutive 1s or 0s as these represented signals with a higher slope. One system that I worked on would not transmit data for gaps in speech and on the receiving end would fill the gaps with background noise. Thus over a number of circuits the savings of not transmitting the dead space between words allowed more circuits to share the same aggregate data link. A form of compression.

These were straight encoder/decoders and made no attempt to compress speech itself, but still had pretty good MOS scores. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_opinion_score

Trouble is that they required more bandwidth than desired to get the signal across, so speech compression algorithms started being used.

G.728 and G.729 were two that were pretty common, G.728 is a low delay code excited linear prediction algorithm that needs 16 kbit/s but has low processing delay. G.729 is also a code excited linear prediction algorithm but has higher complexity and higher delay, but only needs 8 kbit/s.

Unlike 64 kbit/s PCM or the 32 kbit/s delta mod codecs, the G.728 and G.729 speech compression algorithms don't pass arbitrary waveforms very well and also don't work well with dial-up modem or fax modulations and require the use of a helper chip that is designed to demodulate/remodulate the modem signals and bypass the vocoder.

A lot of voice over IP systems use these.

Digital cell phones needed even further compression and things went downhill from there in terms of MOS. Likely not helped by the speakers in the phones themselves.

As someone who spent a lot of time engineering the transmission facilities that can carry these signals, the shift to voice over IP (VoIP) is both interesting and frustrating. When a lot of work is spent squeezing out every last bit/s from a transmission facility or vocoder it hurts to see the huge amount of overhead that is consumed by the TCP/IP headers and framing of the voice into the IP packets. For example, G.729 which requires 8 kbit/s by itself is bloated up to 31.2 kbit/s. But this can be reduced through header compression.

I moved a year ago to a new house and finally had to break down and give up my old copper POTS service for VoIP over cable. Working pretty well, but even with my aging hearing I can tell the difference, but mostly from the occasional dropped packet and less from the quality itself.
 
Phone with voice clarity

Phone with voice clarity

I have just started my business in IT field , the phone system that I am using is giving much voice problem. I am very much confused relating to the best phone system. My friends told me about AT&T phones and they also told me about Nexcom telephone system and told me to visit http://nexcomdigital.com/voip-business-phone-systems-culver-city/ . If any one of you has any knowledge on the subject, please guide me.
 
I only stopped to watch it because I recognized Hank Hill from Bevis and Butthead
Both are creations of Mike Judge, who is also the brains behind the cult classic Office Space. He's got a more recent one called Idiocracy about the state of civilization 500 years in the future when the smart people have not procreated but the dumb ones have bred like rabbits. Not quite as good as Office Space but still pretty damn funny.

I'll admit I don't know enough about how it all works, but am pretty sure text takes little resources compared to voice
That's the thing about text messages: The cost to the carrier is essentially zero because SMS messages are sent via the existing backend telephone control system (signalling system 7) during a period when it's not otherwise occupied with controlling calls in progress. This is also the reason for the 160 character limitation for SMS; to fit within the 128 byte space allocated to existing control signals.

Morro of this story is some years back the FCC took away 700 and 2100 Mhz broadcast TV frequencies from commercial TV because there is hardly any use of UHF TV anymore. The FCC auctioned it off to cell phone carriers. Verizon, ATT, T-Moblie, US Cellular, and Sprint won the lion's share of licenses in that order. Verizon got the biggest chunk of all of them, more than the other 4 combined. Those two bands of frequencies (700 and 2100 Mhz) are the 4G bands. CDMA and GSM 3G operate on 800 and 1900 Mhz bands and will be phased like Analog.
Instead of being phased out the frequencies will probably be re-purposed for LTE. This year they shut off EVDO service in western Canada and immediately re-purporsed those 850MHz frequencies for 3G(HSPA+) traffic. They're already beginning to re-purpose some 1900 MHz frequencies from HSPA+ to LTE, despite already operating LTE on 700, 1700, and 2600 MHz.

Trouble is that they required more bandwidth than desired to get the signal across, so speech compression algorithms started being used.

G.728 and G.729 were two that were pretty common, G.728 is a low delay code excited linear prediction algorithm that needs 16 kbit/s but has low processing delay. G.729 is also a code excited linear prediction algorithm but has higher complexity and higher delay, but only needs 8 kbit/s.

Unlike 64 kbit/s PCM or the 32 kbit/s delta mod codecs, the G.728 and G.729 speech compression algorithms don't pass arbitrary waveforms very well and also don't work well with dial-up modem or fax modulations and require the use of a helper chip that is designed to demodulate/remodulate the modem signals and bypass the vocoder.

A lot of voice over IP systems use these.

Digital cell phones needed even further compression and things went downhill from there in terms of MOS. Likely not helped by the speakers in the phones themselves.
Of course the carriers want to cram as many calls as possible through a given frequency, so they'll use as little bandwidth as possible while maintaining passable voice quality. A few years ago it was possible to change the Vocoder used by a CDMA phone to enable better outgoing sound quality. The default at the time was something called EVRC (Enhanced Variable Rate CODEC) but with a few keystrokes you could tell the phone to use the older 13k vocoder, which usually gave better clarity on account of using more bandwidth (8k vs 13k)
 
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