Telephone Wall Power

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dpenbert

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Does anyone see a problem with having an outlet dedicated for a wall mounted telephone tied into the same circuit as a microwave circuit? I don't want to tie it into the kitchen convenience circuits because of 210.52(B)(2).
I have known people who have microwaves plugged into the same circuit as their telephone and it causes interference with the phone(while the microwave was in use), but in these cases the phone was right next to the microwave.


Thanks,

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David - St. Louis
 
Re: Telephone Wall Power

I once had an inspector tell me that if the microwave is built-in, it has to be on an individual branch circuit, so that would preclude putting your telephone on it.

Take a look at 210.23(A)(2). If it's a 20A circuit, the built-in microwave can't be more than 1200W if you want the phone on the same circuit. I think most microwaves these days are larger than 1200W.

[ October 06, 2005, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: jeff43222 ]
 
Re: Telephone Wall Power

I don't know if this has been debated here before, but if you have a "built-in microwave," does that mean that it is "fastened in place"? That phrase "built-in" is not completely clear. If the shelving unit has a space designed to house a microwave, and if there is a receptacle within that space, and if the microwave sits on a shelf, does that constitute "fastened in place"? Or would it have to be screwed, bolted, or otherwise held firmly in position, to constitute "fastened in place"? If an item is "plug & cord connected," does that by itself mean that it is not "fastened in place"?

But back to the question at hand.

Let's say this particular microwave is, in fact, "fastened in place." Clearly, the phone is also "fastened in place," as it is mounted on the wall. Then I have to disagree with this:
Originally posted by jeff43222: Take a look at 210.23(A)(2). If it's a 20A circuit, the built-in microwave can't be more than 1200W if you want the phone on the same circuit.
Click to expand...
Since both the items are fastened in place, then the 50% restriction in 210.23(A)(2) does not apply. The only thing you can fall back on is 210.23, and limit the total load to 20 amps (2400 watts).
 
Re: Telephone Wall Power

Originally posted by jeff43222: I once had an inspector tell me that if the microwave is built-in, it has to be on an individual branch circuit, so that would preclude putting your telephone on it.
Click to expand...
Come on. You should know that you never believe anything than an inspector tells you. :D :D
 
Re: Telephone Wall Power

Yeah, but if I start disregarding things inspectors tell me, my world will become markedly less pleasant. :D

I think I may have misunderstood what the inspector told me that one time. Perhaps his meaning was that if a microwave is not built-in, it's not "counter-mounted" and thus cannot be served by the small-appliance receptacles per 210.52(B)(2), Exception 2.

The phrase "built-in" might not be completely clear, but it does appear 12 times in the 2002 NEC.

[ October 06, 2005, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: jeff43222 ]
 
Re: Telephone Wall Power

Originally posted by charlie b:
The only thing you can fall back on is 210.23, and limit the total load to 20 amps (2400 watts).
Click to expand...
Assuming, of course, the microwave doesn't exceed 1920W on a 20A circuit or 1440W on a 15A circuit. 2002 NEC 210.23(A)(1).
 
Re: Telephone Wall Power

I don't see how 210.52 (B)(2)would prevent you from having a recp. under the phone on a small app. CK. I think that 210.52 (b)(2) refers to lights
 
Re: Telephone Wall Power

wyatt
210.52(B)(1) says that the small appliance circuits shall serve the receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and refrigeration. 210.52(B)(2) says they shall serve no other outlets. It makes no mention of lighting only.

It would seem that technically, they can't serve any "dedicated" receptacle outlets as was questioned in the original post.

Jim T
 
Re: Telephone Wall Power

Originally posted by dpenbert:
Does anyone see a problem with having an outlet dedicated for a wall mounted telephone tied into the same circuit as a microwave circuit?
Click to expand...
I'd find a different circuit. Lighting would be okay, I would think. Last time I dealt with one, the guy wanted a dedicated circuit for 'clean' reasons. We met in the middle, a circuit that I had pulled for the entertainment center and subs.

With that said...

I don't want to tie it into the kitchen convenience circuits because of 210.52(B)(2).
Click to expand...
How's this for crazy: I don't believe that 120V phone jack would not necessarily violate 210.52(B)(2), and further, it could be used as a required outlet for countertop and wall space. :D
 
Re: Telephone Wall Power

Assuming, of course, the microwave doesn't exceed 1920W on a 20A circuit or 1440W on a 15A circuit. 2002 NEC 210.23(A)(1).
Click to expand...
This would not apply to an individual branch circuit with a single receptacle. 210.23 allows an individual branch circuit to supply any load for which it is rated. 210.23(A)-(D) only applies to circuits with 2 or more receptacles. A 20 amp circuit could have a load of 2400 watts as long as it's not on for more than 3 hours.

[ October 07, 2005, 05:02 AM: Message edited by: infinity ]
 
Re: Telephone Wall Power

Originally posted by infinity:
Assuming, of course, the microwave doesn't exceed 1920W on a 20A circuit or 1440W on a 15A circuit. 2002 NEC 210.23(A)(1).
Click to expand...
This would not apply to an individual branch circuit with a single receptacle. 210.23 allows an individual branch circuit to supply any load for which it is rated. 210.23(A)-(D) only applies to circuits with 2 or more receptacles. A 20 amp circuit could have a load of 2400 watts as long as it's not on for more than 3 hours.
Click to expand...
Doesn't microwave recp + telephone recp = 2?
 
Re: Telephone Wall Power

As I see it I would put the recp. on one of the small appliance ck. as per 210.52(b)(1) rather than push the term fastened in place on a wall phone. For if the wall space that the phone is on is over 24" you would need to place an outlet anyway.
 
Re: Telephone Wall Power

Scott, that is the telephone jack that I am using. Of course this means that it doesn't plug into a receptacle outlet rather it gets a constant hot. This was the first time I have used them.

Originally posted by Charlie b:
Since both the items are fastened in place, then the 50% restriction in 210.23(A)(2) does not apply. The only thing you can fall back on is 210.23, and limit the total load to 20 amps (2400 watts).
Click to expand...
I agree with this. Also I spoke with the inspector and he was perfectly fine with tying this phone outlet circuit in with the microwave circuit, though he recommended a lighting circuit. A 120V cooktop receptacle is also on the same circuit as the microwave with a small load.

Thanks,

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David - St. Louis :cool:
 
Re: Telephone Wall Power

Doesn't microwave recp + telephone recp = 2?
Click to expand...
Jeff, you're correct it would be two if you added one for the phone but I was responding more to your first post you said:

I once had an inspector tell me that if the microwave is built-in, it has to be on an individual branch circuit, so that would preclude putting your telephone on it.
Click to expand...
So I thought that you were still speaking about an individual branch circuit with one receptacle which when used could be loaded to it's full capacity. My fault for assuming.


Trevor
 
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