Temp. generators for huricanes

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jimwalker

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TAMPA FLORIDA
Ok am prepaired this time for a huricane,just bought a new coleman 5000 watt 120/240 with isolated neutral and it can run everything from water pump to frig.It came with twist lock 20 amp 120/240 plug.
Looking for a cheap safe way to feed the panel.I was wondering if i could legally use a contactor with normally closed contactors with no voltage keeping them closed.Then apply power company voltage to coil .
Any input on a cheap solution is wanted.What does a cheap 200 amp transfer switch cost ?
 
Re: Temp. generators for huricanes

Maybe i did not exsplain good enough.What i want it to do is supply 20 amps.I know it cant run everything at one time but it makes it lot easier than running cords all over the house.The load would be selectivly reduced to keep it at 5000 watts.By feeding the bus bar everything can be operated just not at same time.After what we went thru last year i will be ready
 
Re: Temp. generators for huricanes

Install a Gen-Tran panel, generator sub-panel, generator interlock breaker in the main, or a whole house transfer switch and be done with it. These are several viable options. I would not mess around with contactors and makeshift setups.

Whatever it is it needs to be approved by the POCO and local AHJ. I know many folks, especially Fla, think they can get away with stuff since it is usually an emergency situation, like last year. This is different. you can....
Do it right, right from the start.
 
Re: Temp. generators for huricanes

Well many use a 2 ended male plug but i rather do this legal and safe but money is a factor too so looking at cost of materials and whats in stock.Labor is not an issue.I want it to be easy to use
 
Re: Temp. generators for huricanes

Use a 200A manual transfer switch. May not be the cheapest way to go, but then you will KNOW that you aren't going to energize lines on a utility worker. These guys are busy enough during a hurricane without worrying about a backfeed from a residence.

It may be cheaper for you, if labor is not an issue, to put some of your loads in a 60A or 100A subpanel and then use a smaller transfer switch.

I can think of one other thing that would be less expensive and still fairly failsafe: a Kirk Key system. One key on your main to PoCo, releases key only when off, and one on a 20A breaker to a male inlet mounted near your gennie, only releases key when off. Has to be cheaper than a big transfer switch, and almost as foolproof, though not quite as straightforward under emergency conditions.
 
Re: Temp. generators for huricanes

Delt with this quite a bit lately. Here is my analysis of the options:

200A dpdt switch (or smaller depending on your service size) - expensive, around $450, generally easy to install except having to get the utility to pull you meter = inspection. Nice because you can power whole house except elec range, electric heat, etc.

gen-tran or similar - easy to install, pretty cheap, start at low $200 which would likely give you six circuits. Can get 12 circuits for another $75

Subpanel with interlock - very low cost, i did one for about $90 in materials, takes a lot more time than a gen tran to install, but plus side is gives you more circuits.

super economy - make you own with a multigang box and some three way switches. you could use an offset nipple from you panel into a four gang masonary box for four circuits, throw another one on for eight.

Quit being so cheap - jsut go get the 20KW with automatic transfer switch :)

Regards,
Ethan
 
Re: Temp. generators for huricanes

The idea of a new panel is not bad idea,it is an old ge thats maxed out anyways.I would like to know more about the breakers that only allow either main 100 or generator 20.The panel i need to do this too is already a sub panel so does not need to carry the AC,DRYER,RANGE.I could get by fine on 100 amp back fed breaker.I seen this setup on a lift station few months ago.It had a pin that slides to allow either the 100 main or gen breaker to be turned on but not both.Money is tight here.Lucked out and got gen for $529 at big orange
 
Re: Temp. generators for huricanes

SquareD also makes generator interlock kits that will convert a 200 amp main breaker panel into a listed manual transfer switch. There are 4 different kits depending on the panel type. The back fed breaker for the generator is limited to 100 amps.

There are also 3 generator interlock kits for use in 125 amp and 200 amp main lug panels that interlock 2 backfed breakers up 100 amps each. The panelboard main lugs then get turned into power takeoff lugs.
 
Re: Temp. generators for huricanes

Jim SQ D makes a QO service rated generator panel you can`t run everything ,but a 5 kw gen won`t anyway ;) It`s about $60.00 pluss tandems 4/8 circuits so if you want hot water you can tie
4 lighting circuits into it.No hot water fridge micro and lights or 8 circuits cheap and easy.One of our builders has been selling these to new homeowners and this is what we use.Easy to retro just need 2 spaces in your panel and enough room to make splices from the circuits you want to energize ;)
 
Re: Temp. generators for huricanes

I suggest you stay with the simplest, cheapest, and safest solution. It also has the advantage of not requiring a permit or inspection. Just do what you said you didn?t want to do: run extension cords to the generator.

Keep in mind that this is a back up that will only be used for a limited time during an infrequent event. If you keep the generator in the garage, and bring it out if and when the hurricane season takes out the utility power, and plug the fridge or whatever into it via portable cords, and live for the short time with a couple cords lying about, and then put everything back into the garage when the utility service comes back, you will have saved time, saved money, and not placed any utility worker at risk.
 
Re: Temp. generators for huricanes

Thanks to everyone for suggestions.I had a chance to look at that lift station box again today.It looks like a very simple and cheap thing to do.Visualise two 2 pole breakers 100 amps each with a space between them that holds a 1/4 inch round rod that must be slid either up or down to operate one breaker only at a time.This stops any chance of the poco line in being on if the other breaker is on.Is there any such item out there such as a dumby breaker that would be locked in by a screw same as the 100 amp main breaker being back fed.Its only down fall is it would take up 2 spaces on bus bar.I could probably build one put would rather have a listed device.

What ever i do i will not risk frying any utility men
A few important things to me
1. no drop cords to anything
2. must be able to use anything on that panel
3.needs to be operable from inside house
4. must be safe and easy to operate

[ April 07, 2005, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: Temp. generators for huricanes

Jim. I designed my own transfer set up with an auto start for my generator. I also retooled the manifold so I can use natural gas or propane or gasoline. I just turn one fuel off and let the engine use the remaining in the cylinder then restart with the other fuel. I also used contactors in a subpanel to control the auto switching. I used 3 phase contactors and treat each system as a SDS. Send a message and will forword you a set of dwgs. They can easily be modified for any generator. I had way to much time on my hands awhile back but it works great.
 
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