Temp Power and Electric Utilities not covered

[BIGGmike]

Even though Electric Utilities not covered by NEC, what leverage can be used to suggest the NEC be followed in a power plant and not just used for a convienent reference? My direct concern today is Temporary Power.
OSHA's 1910.269 is not the same and state safety regs are a start but are lacking.
And other than what is written in the NEC 90.2(B), why aren't power plants covered (yet we refer to it so much)?

 

[benaround]

mike,

Electric Utility industry uses NESC as it's primary requirement in the generation,

transmission, distribution, and metering of electrical energy. NEC would cover

Electric Utility buildings such as, office buildings, warehouses, garages, shops,

and the like.

 

[BIGGmike]

Still surprised

Still surprised

Thanks but I am still surprised at the lack of responses. Any other ideas why would the plants be exempt?

 

[haskindm]

Read 90.4 - especially the part about the NEC being suitable for use by INSURANCE INSPECTORS. If/when somethng happens and insurance inspectors become involved and the NEC minimums have not been met, the you-know-what will hit the fan.... The NESC will be more strict than the NEC in most instances, but you should AT LEAST meet the NEC standards as a minimum.

 

[MJJBEE]

Even though Electric Utilities not covered by NEC, what leverage can be used to suggest the NEC be followed in a power plant and not just used for a convienent reference? My direct concern today is Temporary Power.
OSHA's 1910.269 is not the same and state safety regs are a start but are lacking.
And other than what is written in the NEC 90.2(B), why aren't power plants covered (yet we refer to it so much)?

Power plants have to follow the NESC if you have a specific concern with a temporary power install you can try asking about it but in general the NESC has a lot less rules and regulations around distributing power in plant environment then the NEC. Also they follow the NESC because they are a critical part of generating an producing the power thus the fall under the NESC not the NEC. The only leverage you can use to suggest that the NEC be followed inside the power plant is if you have the responsibility for the work being done in some way. IE as an electrician you can refuse to install it except per NEC. However everything that must be done in a power plant can't always be done per NEC hence the exemption.

 

[charlie]

Is there some reason you are asking about power plants and not mines, ships, recreational vehicles, automobiles, railroads, communications central offices, power poles in public rights-of-way, etc.?

 

[BIGGmike]

Is there some reason you are asking about power plants and not mines, ships, recreational vehicles, automobiles, railroads, communications central offices, power poles in public rights-of-way, etc.?

Yes, the reason is I work in a power plant and trying to create a plant order or borrow from some of the "other plants" existing orders for submission at our location for "temp power". Every one I have read is lacking or does not have any firm basis for their policy. There is ALWAYS opposition to change the way others have done things and I try to have documentation for EVERY line/statement in a document I support.

Using tray cable for temp installations is one example I struggle with instead of flexible cable. The argument is our tray cable is a superior cable (jacketing & A rating) and as long as no tight radius are used, it's fine. I disagree! The stranding is much larger and thus will break after repeated use/bending, coiling, and reuse. It is not rated for the enviroment (other than tray). Temp power is hooked to equipment that is not permanently fixed in place so once connected, who knows if it will be moved a little, vibration, or what may happen to it. The people who need the power are usually travellers unfamiliar with our policies and practices. Being the new kid on the block and not a supervisor, there are barriers that have to be broken and I am tired of statements like the code doesn't apply here and nothing has gone wrong the way it's been done. Yeah right. So we've been lucky.

Is there place online (free) I can access the actual NESC code? The IEEE webpages I find do not offer what I am looking for. I will try to access it through corporate though.

Working here over 20 years, I can't think of any situations in any of the newer plants we cannot do to meet the code. We refer to it constantly for many things but seem to pick and choose. I have issues with that and struggle with it from a safety standpoint.

 

[BIGGmike]

Read 90.4 - especially the part about the NEC being suitable for use by INSURANCE INSPECTORS. If/when somethng happens and insurance inspectors become involved and the NEC minimums have not been met, the you-know-what will hit the fan.... The NESC will be more strict than the NEC in most instances, but you should AT LEAST meet the NEC standards as a minimum.

Very good. Thank you. 90.4 gives me more of what I looking for.

 

[charlie]

The NESC (not the NESC Code since that would be the National Electrical Safety Code Code) is an expensive document that is not available anywhere on-line that I know of (I have looked but have had no luck). Your plant engineers should have a copy somewhere for you to peruse.

One of the things we do on a regular basis is to submit questions to groups of other electric utilities to see how others do the same thing that we are doing or trying to do. Your management would have access to groups of that nature and could submit your questions to the group. We are members of several groups of that nature and I have been involved in the distribution discussions for several years.

The answer that the NEC doesn't apply is valid. However, you have engineering supervision that should use existing standards for a basis to determine what is best for a given installation. If the installation has standards to go by, use them. I am not familiar with tray cable but I do know that manufacturers have data sheets that an engineer can use to apply to an installation. The NEC is prescriptive where the NESC is performance based and the plant engineer can tell you what needs to be done with a particular installation.

Is this really a safety issue? If it is, pursue it with your supervision and safety council. I wish you the best. :smile: