Temp power to office trailer

[liquidtite]

Does nec state you need a disconect located at a temp trailer ?
As of now the disconecting means is inside the building .

All ungrounded conductots are simontanusly disconeted with a two pole Ocp .

 

[david]

Does nec state you need a disconect located at a temp trailer ?
As of now the disconecting means is inside the building .

All ungrounded conductots are simontanusly disconeted with a two pole Ocp .

The service insulation requirements for office trailers would be covered in article 550. You would need a disconnect within 30 ft.

 

[iwire]

The service insulation requirements for office trailers would be covered in article 550. You would need a disconnect within 30 ft.

I disagree, typically an office trailer would be covered by article 545 and a disconecting means inside the office trailer is acceptable.

 

[david]

I disagree, typically an office trailer would be covered by article 545 and a disconecting means inside the office trailer is acceptable.

550.4 General Requirements.
A mobile home not intended as a dwelling unit ? for example, those equipped for sleeping purposes only, contractor?s on-site offices, construction job dormitories, mobile studio dressing rooms, banks, clinics, mobile stores, or intended for the display or demonstration of merchandise or machinery ? shall not be required to meet the provisions of this article pertaining to the number or capacity of circuits required.

It shall, however, meet all other applicable requirements of this article if provided with an electrical installation intended to be energized from a 120-volt or 120/240-volt ac power supply system.

It must be different where you are,

Here when these types(article 545) are used for dwellings we call them industrialized housing (buildings) . Here anything you purchase that comes with a title would never be considered real-estate. Manufactured ?Buildings? are only designed to be constructed on a permanent foundation do not have a chassis, are not designed to be moved once set up. Manufactured buildings once installed are real-estate.

?Manufactured buildings are generally constructed within a factory or assembly plant and then transported to the building site. They are not built on a chassis and are designed to be installed on a permanent foundation.?

 

[kwired]

I think the first thing to do is to determine which article applies to the building in question. Could be 545, 550, or even 551, 552 should exempt itself from this particular application in 552.4. It is also possible none of those articles apply and you revert to chapters 1-4 and general practices. Just because it is temporary/portable doesn't mean it has to be a 545, 550 or 551 application. It could be a "home made" building on a skid or something of that nature, in that case I would think just chapters 1-4 are all that apply.

 

[david]

The job trailers that I have inspected come with a manufactures tag. The manufactures instructions usually a tag by the distribution panel that they be supplied by a four wire feeder. That?s been my experience anyways.

I read 550.4 as applicable to manufactured ?job trailers?

I answered the OP as to what is typically used as construction site Job trailers

 

[iwire]

The job trailers that I have inspected come with a manufactures tag. The manufactures instructions usually a tag by the distribution panel that they be supplied by a four wire feeder. That?s been my experience anyways.

I read 550.4 as applicable to manufactured ?job trailers?

I answered the OP as to what is typically used as construction site Job trailers

550 only applies to a job trailer when a mobile home is used as a job trailer.

550.4 General Requirements.

(A) Mobile Home Not Intended as a Dwelling Unit. A mobile home not intended as a dwelling unit ? for ex-ample, those equipped for sleeping purposes only, contrac-tor's on-site offices, construction job dormitories, mobile studio dressing rooms, banks, clinics, mobile stores, or in-tended for the dis......

Notice first it has to be a mobile home. And if it is a mobile home used as a job trailer 550 applies

But when I look at the tags on the job trailers we get they are manafacturerd bulidings not mobile homes.

Manufactured Building. Any building that is of closed construction and is made or assembled in manufacturing facilities on or off the building site for installation, or for assembly and installation on the building site, other than manufactured homes, mobile homes, park trailers, or recre-ational vehicles.

And yes they still get a four wire feeder just like any seperate structure is required too.

 

[david]

Does nec state you need a disconect located at a temp trailer ?
As of now the disconecting means is inside the building .

All ungrounded conductots are simontanusly disconeted with a two pole Ocp .

550

And yes they still get a four wire feeder just like any seperate structure is required too.

Ok, there is no federal REG. on manufactured buildings, verses manufactured housing.

What the op has is a trailer. Manufactured buildings here do not come with a title. I agree your state can and does have there own regulations when it comes to manufactured structures. Here article 550 would not apply to manufactured ( industrialized ) buildings

We both agree that the service disconnect is exterior of the job trailer. I will have to give some thinking as to 550.4 when it comes to job trailers.
since the state in which it was manufactured created the reg.

I know you don't care what any commentary says,
I do not see anything in article 552 that would not allow the service in a manufactured building.

From that i take it, if it is the only building on a job site you believe the service disconnect could be in the job trailer.

 

[iwire]

Where did I indicate a service could be installed in it?

Power company regs prevent us from doing so.

As far as 550.4 you seem to insist on putting the cart before the horse.

If the structure is labeled as a mobile home 550 applies even if not used as such.

On the other hand if the tag says manufactured building article 550 does not apply.

Unless an area has local amendments to the NEC that is how it is in my opinion.

 

[david]

typically an office trailer would be covered by article 545

Where did I indicate a service could be installed in it?

By making referance to article 545.

Actually I have problem with 550.4 in regards to 550.1

Manufactured homes are reg. by HUD. For instance manufactured homes are only manufactured as single family dwellings and the term mobile home is obsolete , the only category in article 550 that a job trailer could have fallen under.

All we are left with is the manufactures instructions. The NEC would not address job trailers as a manufactured structure at all.

Like I said I am going to have to think about 550.4 we always referred to that section when supplying manufactured job trailers

 

[david]

I haven?t verified it but I was told by a co-worker that PA manufactures something like 1/3 of the manufactured buildings in the country. We sent an email to the state requesting clarification as to what manufactures tag, non dwelling use trailers , office trailers, clinics, and such are being manufactured under.

 

[david]

I haven?t verified it but I was told by a co-worker that PA manufactures something like 1/3 of the manufactured buildings in the country. We sent an email to the state requesting clarification as to what manufactures tag, non dwelling use trailers , office trailers, clinics, and such are being manufactured under.

550.1 Scope.
The provisions of this article cover the electrical conductors and equipment installed within or on mobile and manufactured homes, the conductors that connect mobile and manufactured homes to a supply of electricity, and the installation of electrical wiring, luminaires, equipment, and appurtenances related to electrical installations within a mobile home park up to the mobile home service-entrance conductors or, if none, the mobile home service equipment.

I do not have the technical expertise to accomplish this but

The scoping provisions need changed in article 550
The provisions of this article cover the electrical conductors and equipment installed within or on mobile and manufactured homes, mobile homes not intended as a dwelling unit

Actually 550.4 needs change to mobile buildings not intended as a dwelling unit

And the scoping provisions need to change
The provisions of this article cover the electrical conductors and equipment installed within or on mobile and manufactured homes, mobile buildings not intended as a dwelling unit

550.4 says ?if provided with an electrical installation intended to be energized from a 120-volt or 120/240-?

I believe article 550.4 was intended to apply to manufactured trailers intended to be occupied as temporary use as contractor?s on-site offices, construction job dormitories, mobile studio dressing rooms, banks, clinics, mobile stores the scoping provisions in 550.1 do not support what 550.4 says

Since the term mobile home is becoming obsolete, (only applying to existing) pre mid 1976 homes. And mobile homes where never regulated by any manufactured home standard so a trailer used as stated in 550.4 could have been tagged mobile home.

I feel changes need made in article 550
A term defined and added mobile buildings the term mobile home is used in 550.4 is no longer applicable to the uses as stated in 550.4 the definition for the most part can be pulled right from 550.4

Mobile Building: A mobile building not intended as a dwelling unit provided with an electrical installation intended to be energized from a 120-volt or 120/240-volt ac power supply system.

or Mobile Building: A mobile building intended for temporary use and not intended as a dwelling unit provided with an electrical installation intended to be energized from a 120-volt or 120/240-volt ac power supply system

550.4 needs changed from mobile homes to mobile buildings if this change was implemented it would make a clear distinction between existing mobile home ?Dwellings? and mobile homes not intended to be used as dwellings.

Since the term mobile home was never recognized by any state or federal housing regulations the manufacture could manufacture them in any configuration they wanted as long as the vehicle could be titled, and certified as safe for highway use.

 

[iwire]

Dave as often happens you lose me, I really have a hard time following you.:huh:

Here are some questions I hope you can answer for me.

What is a 'job trailer'?

Is it your feeling that any trailer on a job site is a job trailer and therefore 550 applies?

What do you make of the first few lines of 550.4?

(A) Mobile Home Not Intended as a Dwelling Unit. A mobile home not intended as a dwelling unit

To me that means a structure that meets the definition of a mobile home and has been built as a mobile home.

It does not mean that an office trailer with a tag that says manufactured building on it has to be treated as a mobile home. Do you agree or disagree with that? :huh:

It would really help me if you could be concise and on point.

 

[iwire]

All we are left with is the manufactures instructions. The NEC would not address job trailers as a manufactured structure at all

I really have no idea why you feel a job trailer with a sticker that says manufactured building would not be addressed by 545?

When I type manufactured buildings into Google the first result is the company that provides 95% of the job trailers in my area.

http://www.willscot.com/ppc/modular...f2xXCnu4IIAPVNvFD0bPWzUJiUmIQfTHhlBoCiXLw_wcB

 

[david]

I really have no idea why you feel a job trailer with a sticker that says manufactured building would not be addressed by 545?

When I type manufactured buildings into Google the first result is the company that provides 95% of the job trailers in my area.

http://www.willscot.com/ppc/modular...f2xXCnu4IIAPVNvFD0bPWzUJiUmIQfTHhlBoCiXLw_wcB

states regulate what can be manufactured as manufactured buildings, in this sate we have industrialized buildings, (manufactured buildings) a clear distinction, and I know you do not like to use a commentary but it holds true in this state, can?t speak for yours.

Manufactured buildings in this state are not mobile, they are delivered to a site but are not defined as mobile, do not have a permanent chasse system, once set up are considered real-estate just like any other constructed building.

In article 550 though they are called mobile homes, that did not make them a dwelling.

Contrary to the term manufactured homes, these are always single family dwellings. That is the only use they are manufactured under. Reg by HUD they have to meet the dwelling use standard.

Mobile homes do not have to meet any use standard, that?s why the term mobile home includes dwellings and all the uses found in 550.4

If manufactured as a dwelling they had to meet all the requirements in article 550

When a trailer was manufactured as some other use they do not have to have any of the bathroom circuits, kitchen circuits, or any of the dwelling requirements in article 550. They are even allowed to be supplied by something different than 120/240 volt systems say 227 volt.

Because the scoping says home everyone says dwelling,
Not that it is a mobile home (dwelling) used on a job site.
They where trailers manufactured with a certain use in mind. Only the ones manufactured meeting all the provisions of article 550 where intended to be used as a dwelling.

Until the fed housing REG. where in place what was to stop you from taking a mobile home manufactured as a job trailer a living in it as a dwelling.

Manufactured buildings are designed to be permanent that is why

?545.7 Service Equipment.
Service equipment shall be installed in accordance with 230.70.?

There is no concern in article 545 about the elevated risk involving the metal structure or metal chasse system that you find in article 550.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Double post

 

[jxofaltrds]

Does nec state you need a disconect located at a temp trailer ?
As of now the disconecting means is inside the building .

All ungrounded conductots are simontanusly disconeted with a two pole Ocp .

short answer - yes.

Now to terms: "For the purpose of this Code and unless otherwise indicated,
the term mobile home includes manufactured homes."

First the installation is temporary so we must read:

590.4 General.
(B) Feeders. Overcurrent protection shall be provided in accordance
with 240.4, 240.5, 240.100, and 240.101. Conductors
shall be permitted within cable assemblies or within multiconductor
cords or cables of a type identified in Table 400.4
for hard usage or extra-hard usage. For the purpose of this
section, Type NM and Type NMC cables shall be permitted to
be used in any dwelling, building, or structure without any
height limitation or limitation by building construction type
and without concealment within walls, floors, or ceilings.

And

550.4 General Requirements.
(A) Mobile Home Not Intended as a Dwelling Unit. As stated above.

550.32 Service Equipment.
(A) Mobile Home Service Equipment. Applies not (B)

 

[david]

Dave as often happens you lose me, I really have a hard time following you.:huh:

Here are some questions I hope you can answer for me.

What is a 'job trailer'?

well i went to the stae for that one just for there input, i will answer your questions

From the head person PA department of ergonomic and community development. The state of PA. does not require any manufactured tag nor does the state regulations regulate trailer use of this type.

Since such tags are not required, the state does not prohibit there use in pa. When we inspect a supply to a an out of state manufactured ? job trailer? in pa that has a manufactures tag, that non PA required tag, is not recognized by the state of PA.

The state takes no position on NFPA 70 article 550.4 applying to Job trailers since in the states view these as temporary structures. Mobile home is a term that the state does not recognize in any of the states regulations.

The state recognizes manufactured homes as a federally and state regulated single family dwelling
The state recognizes industrial buildings including industrialized homes a state regulated industry

 

[david]

Dave as often happens you lose me, I really have a hard time following you.:huh: It would really help me if you could be concise and on point.

What is a 'job trailer'?

Since we are talking about electrical provisions I would say a manufactured trailer with an electrical system including electrical supply provisions.

Is it your feeling that any trailer on a job site is a job trailer and therefore 550 applies?)

No, but I took it that we were discussing the typical office type job trailer.

What do you make of the first few lines of 550.4?

I would look at 550.4 in two parts
Part one:
?A mobile home not intended as a dwelling unit ? for example, those equipped for sleeping purposes only, contractor?s on-site offices, construction job dormitories, mobile studio dressing rooms, banks, clinics, mobile stores, or intended for the display or demonstration of merchandise or machinery ? shall not be required to meet the provisions of this article pertaining to the number or capacity of circuits required. It shall, however, meet all other applicable requirements of this article

?if? provided with an electrical installation intended to be energized from a 120-volt or 120/240-volt ac power supply system.?

Part two:
Where different voltage is required by either design or available power supply system, adjustment shall be made in accordance with other articles and sections for the voltage used.

I would glean from that and other portions of the code that the typical mobile home would be the one designed to be used as a single family dwelling.
Would never be supplied by a 480/277 volt supply.

I would recognize that a manufactured mobile home that was designed to be used as a dwelling could be placed on construction site and be used as a job trailer.

I would also recognize that this section addresses manufactured mobile homes supplied by 120/240 volt systems that did not have all the provisions or circuitry that would qualify there use as a single family dwelling could likewise be used as a job trailer on a construction site.

I would also recognize that 550.4 addresses manufactured mobile homes that could be supplied by other voltage systems such as 480/277 though not specifically called out in this section the supply voltage on these manufactured mobile homes was not limited to 240/120
Then I would struggle with the scoping provisions of 550.1
And then I would go to 550.4 (C) from that I would recognize that article 550 recognizes that manufactured mobile homes that are designed to be supplied by other voltage configurations like 480/277 were not intended to be covered by article 550

I would be left to conclude 550.4 only addressed manufactured mobile homes not intended to be dwelling units because of circuitry and other dwelling provisions where being manufactured as offices, clinics, job trailers and so on. when supplied by 240/120 volt sytem

I would go back to 550.1 and struggle with how I get from 550.1 to include 550.4 .

To me that means a structure that meets the definition of a mobile home and has been built as a mobile home.It does not mean that an office trailer with a tag that says manufactured building on it has to be treated as a mobile home. Do you agree or disagree with that? :huh:It would really help me if you could be concise and on point.

The problem with that is each state can regulate what is or is not tagged as a manufactured building
From the hand book commentary article 545

?Manufactured homes are built on a chassis and installed on site with or without a permanent foundation. Manufactured buildings are generally constructed within a factory or assembly plant and then transported to the building site.

They are not built on a chassis and are designed to be installed on a permanent foundation. ?

It would be my position that article 545 manufactured buildings are designed to be installed on a permanent foundation. the code cannot be concerned with what each stae individually does

 

[david]

The question becomes why did the INEC 550.4) address contractor?s on-site offices, construction job dormitories, mobile studio dressing rooms, banks, clinics, mobile stores, or intended for the display or demonstration of merchandise or machinery

We have to try and understand the mobile home industry in the mid 1950?s a new product was hitting the industry strong, trailers , not just campers but trailers you could live in and call home. The industry called them mobile homes. There were no federal guidelines for these. Take room size the mobile home manufactures could make the bathroom any size they wanted, and so on

Then the states individually started to regulate what was being manufactured the manufactures tag.

The manufactures expanded the use and each state individually decided what the mobile home licensing tag would cover. It was different in each state

The term mobile home was generic and covered just about every mobile trailer (building) that came out of a mobile home manufacturing facility no matter what the occupancy use was intended to be. There was no federal standard requiring over site (regulations) of these facilities each state chose to regulate or not to regulate these individually.

I have a problem with 550.1 because mobile home and manufactured home is defined in the article each definition says in them designed to be used as a dwelling.

Clearly the mobile homes addressed in 550.4 are not designed to be used as a dwelling and there is no definition of these given in the article.
There is a mandatory rule given in 550.4 ? shall not be required to meet the provisions of this article pertaining to the number or capacity of circuits required. ? It shall?, however, meet all other applicable requirements?