Temporary Lighting Circuit GFCI or Not????

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GalwayElectric said:
NYC all temp wiring is done with 12/3 Rx. There is no pipe at all.

No outlet drops are GFCI protected but all trades do (or should) use GFCI between the drop and the extention cord.
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It would say some use 12/3 but not all. In the past I have seen many jobs where 12/4 was used. Each temp drop circuit had a GFCI CB in the panel. Typically they used the red/white circuit for lighting, which matched the leads on the socket and black/blue for the GFCI CB. Strange seeing the blue conductors all terminated on the neutral of the GFCI CB's but this is a common NYC installation and IMO a dangerous one.
 
infinity said:
It would say some use 12/3 but not all. In the past I have seen many jobs where 12/4 was used. Each temp drop circuit had a GFCI CB in the panel. Typically they used the red/white circuit for lighting, which matched the leads on the socket and black/blue for the GFCI CB. Strange seeing the blue conductors all terminated on the neutral of the GFCI CB's but this is a common NYC installation and IMO a dangerous one.
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I've done work in NYC an alot over the last 15 years or so and have never seen 12/4 used. Having asked a few friends of mine that are foreman in NYC for big companies, etc...and they have never scene it. I'm sure it's around but I don't think it's common.

IMO opinion I would disagree with this being a dangerous installation. I think it the safer of two potential hazards. What's wrone with blue wires terminated on a temporary neutral bar? Especially if it gets ripped out in 3 months or so! What's dangerous are carpenters and other trades cutting and leaning their scaffalds onto temp wiring while cutting and not paying attention and the wire is not gfci protected.


Pierre C Belarge said:
In NYC, about 2 weeks ago, the requirement for all temp lighting for scaffolding is now required to be in IMC or RMC. I believe this is due to 2 recent electrocutions at scaffolding sites.
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Have you ever scene these under scaffold installs? They're typically thrown up in a terrible manner with set screw emt connectors and hardly tightened. I think IMC or RMC is a great idea.
 
GalwayElectric said:
I've done work in NYC an alot over the last 15 years or so and have never seen 12/4 used. Having asked a few friends of mine that are foreman in NYC for big companies, etc...and they have never scene it. I'm sure it's around but I don't think it's common.

IMO opinion I would disagree with this being a dangerous installation. I think it the safer of two potential hazards. What's wrone with blue wires terminated on a temporary neutral bar? Especially if it gets ripped out in 3 months or so! What's dangerous are carpenters and other trades cutting and leaning their scaffalds onto temp wiring while cutting and not paying attention and the wire is not gfci protected.




Have you ever scene these under scaffold installs? They're typically thrown up in a terrible manner with set screw emt connectors and hardly tightened. I think IMC or RMC is a great idea.
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The reason that 12/4 should be used is that GFCI protection is required by 590.6(A). Since there is no NYC amendment to 590.6(A) the NEC is the de facto code requirement. Temporary wiring of for all 125 volt 15, 20 and 30 amp receptacles requires GFCI protection. It is not possible using 12/3 to have a GFCI CB protecting the temporary drops. Plug-in style GFCI protectors do not satisfy the code requirement for GFCI protection on temporary power.

Regarding the BLUE conductor, I have seen an electrician who was moving some temps into a permanent panel who connected all of the 4 wire cables with the blue (neutral) on a CB. The resulting 208 volts on all of the temp drops managed to burn out my radio as well as some other devices. Since 12/4 is available with two neutrals it should be used instead of using standard 12/4 with the blue conductor being used as a neutral conductor for the temporary receptacles.
 
infinity said:
Plug-in style GFCI protectors do not satisfy the code requirement for GFCI protection on temporary power.
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Agreed

infinity said:
Regarding the BLUE conductor, I have seen an electrician who was moving some temps into a permanent panel who connected all of the 4 wire cables with the blue (neutral) on a CB. The resulting 208 volts on all of the temp drops managed to burn out my radio as well as some other devices
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I hope this type of shoddy work is the exception and not the rule by us electricians.

infinity said:
Since 12/4 is available with two neutrals it should be used instead of using standard 12/4 with the blue conductor being used as a neutral conductor for the temporary receptacles.
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Certainly a better option. If viable.
 
Would it be evil to use separate runs of 12/2 for the lighting and the receptacles? I've never had anyone ask for receptacles everywhere the lights are.
 
Not evil, but possibly a "waste" a time....because time is money and it's quicker to just run 1 cable with both options(power & light) available.
 
celtic said:
Not evil, but possibly a "waste" a time....because time is money and it's quicker to just run 1 cable with both options(power & light) available.
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I supply pre-made light strings, but only one or two receptacles per floor (or more, depending on building size, of course).
 
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