Termination Block Wiring Methods

[Bret Hull]

I'm trying to find code references for termination block wiring methods. Specifically, I need to know if it's against code to put two wires under the same #8 screw terminal on a motor saver of both wires have forked crimp terminals on them.

I have done this for years in motor control installations and have a customer telling me it's against code. I just need answers that I'm having trouble finding.

 

[Bret Hull]

This is a screenshot of the pic I was sent. The terminations at the top right are what's in question.

 

[ActionDave]

Welcome to the forum.

I can't think of a code reference that directly applies to your question, but I can say that I have made connections like that many times and never thought anything of it.

 

[Bret Hull]

Welcome to the forum.

I can't think of a code reference that directly applies to your question, but I can say that I have made connections like that many times and never thought anything of it.

Thanks for your thoughts. That's the same answer I've recieved from all my personal contacts I've reached out to as well.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The first question would be if the termination is even listed for use with a fork terminal? Most terminations have not been evaluated for that use. The second would be if the the requirement in the last sentence of 110.14(A) applies?

 

[petersonra]

The first question would be if the termination is even listed for use with a fork terminal? Most terminations have not been evaluated for that use. The second would be if the the requirement in the last sentence of 110.14(A) applies?

Appears to be a screw terminal which in general fork terminals are ul approved to connect to.

I think if you check the ul book on it, as long as there is adequate bearing surfaces between the connectors, you can generally stack connectors, or so says ul.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Appears to be a screw terminal which in general fork terminals are ul approved to connect to.

I think if you check the ul book on it, as long as there is adequate bearing surfaces between the connectors, you can generally stack connectors, or so says ul.

I have never looked up the info on the equipment in this post, but the info in the UL guide information for receptacles states that those terminations are only suitable for use with fork terminals where the device is specifically identified for that use by the manufacturer. There is only one model of one brand of receptacle that has that identification.

As far as stacking the fork terminal, yes, that is clearly permitted by the UL Guide Information where the use of fork terminals is permitted.

 

[Bret Hull]

I've been trying to find where to look up the UL file number (#E68520) for the device to see if it specifies anything about the terminal ratings. This is the data sheet for the device. It has the UL file number on it. I just haven't found where to look that up.
Do you happen to know where to find the info you mentioned about stacking the connectors per UL?

 

[jap]

If all the screws have the compression plate behind them the fork terminals are simply an extra connection you don't need.

I'd land them under the plates less the fork terminals.

Much cleaner.

By the way, spade terminals are notorious for loosing a tight connection over time.

I've replaced a ton of them on lighting contactors.

JAP>

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...
Do you happen to know where to find the info you mentioned about stacking the connectors per UL?

From the UL Guide Information for Wire Connectors and Soldering Lugs (ZMVV).

Stacking of connectors (multiple connectors assembled using a single bolt, nut and washers) may be permitted where mechanical interference is reduced or eliminated with the use of offset tangs, stacking adapters, and the like. The surface contact area of the mounting tang should make complete contact with the mounting surface or the previously stacked connector tang.

It appears that the voltage monitor would be investigated to ANSI/UL 508, or ANSI/UL 60947-1 and ANSI/UL 60947-4-1, "Low-Voltage Switchgear and Controlgear - Part 4-1: Contactors and Motor-Starters - Electromechanical Contactors and Motor-Starters."

 

[Bret Hull]

If all the screws have the compression plate behind them the fork terminals are simply an extra connection you don't need.

I'd land them under the plates less the fork terminals.

Much cleaner.

By the way, spade terminals are notorious for loosing a tight connection over time.

I've replaced a ton of them on lighting contactors.

JAP>

While I agree with you in regards to anesthetics and quality, the customer does not and wants crimped connectors at all terminations regardless of the plate being present.

 

[petersonra]

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[jap]

While I agree with you in regards to anesthetics and quality, the customer does not and wants crimped connectors at all terminations regardless of the plate being present.

I understand.

I was assuming the customer wanted a crimped type fork connector under a screw or plate to assure a good solid connection.

Just saying, crimping on a speaker terminal, then, pushing it over a spade for a strictly compression fit is almost a contradiction to a solid connection, and, wouldn't be my first choice.

JMHO.

JAP>

 

[Bret Hull]

View attachment 2561176

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That is perfect! Thank you!

 

[Bret Hull]

I understand.

I was assuming the customer wanted a crimped type fork connector under a screw or plate to assure a good solid connection.

Just saying, crimping on a speaker terminal, then, pushing it over a spade for a strictly compression fit is almost a contradiction to a solid connection, and, wouldn't be my first choice.

JMHO.

JAP>

Agreed

 

[4x4dually]

What I noticed was that it appears that you are using a crimper for uninsulated terminals for insulated terminals. I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like.

 

[Bret Hull]

What I noticed was that it appears that you are using a crimper for uninsulated terminals for insulated terminals. I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like.

It does kind of look that way. I did not personally perform this installation. This is a picture of a termination that one of our field techs made. That's a good catch though. I'll have to look into making sure the correct tool or part of the tool is being used. Thanks!

 

[jap]

What I noticed was that it appears that you are using a crimper for uninsulated terminals for insulated terminals. I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like.

The uninsulated terminal crimper makes a much better crimp than the insulated,,,,, not that I use them for that.....

JAP>

 

[4x4dually]

The uninsulated terminal crimper makes a much better crimp than the insulated,,,,, not that I use them for that.....

JAP>

I typically use the T&B orange/black handles for insulated terms at home because I trust them more, but here at work, our inspectors would shoot that down pretty quick.

 

[jap]

I typically use the T&B orange/black handles for insulated terms at home because I trust them more, but here at work, our inspectors would shoot that down pretty quick.

And why is that?

Are they worried about the small nick it may make in the insulation of the terminal?

JAP>