Tesla EV charger/eaton breakers

[hillbilly1]

I agree. I initially wanted to try another charger, but I'm not convinced that the charger would be a problem. Maybe I don't understand fully what the wall charger does, but it seems to me that all the complexity is in the actual vehicle.

It does have some electronics in it, such as ground fault protection, and EV communication, the new ones may have scr’s but the commercial ones I installed had contactors for enabling power flow.

 

[jaggedben]

I agree. I initially wanted to try another charger, but I'm not convinced that the charger would be a problem. Maybe I don't understand fully what the wall charger does, but it seems to me that all the complexity is in the actual vehicle.

The only thing it's supposed to do with the actual AC power to the car is connect or disconnect it, which it does internally via a contactor. ('Charger' is technically a misnomer. The actual charge controller to the EV battery is in the EV.) The rest is electronics to communicate with the EV, ground fault functionality as mentioned, and comms with other devices for the fancier ones.

 

[retirede]

Have you verified that the EVSE was installed correctly by the user? I’m grabbing at straws here….could he have connected the neutral conductor of the branch circuit to the ground terminal of the EVSE which is somehow feeding noise back to the neutrals of the AFCIs?

 

[tortuga]

The only thing it's supposed to do with the actual AC power to the car is connect or disconnect it,

I think a EVSE is also supposed to generate the 1khz 12V square wave pulse. That tells the car how many amps it can pull.

 

[ActionDave]

The control pilot pins send a PWM signal between the EV and the EVSE controlling the max current allowed to flow to the car based on what the EVSE is set at and making sure an EV is connected. AC power is brought to the car on two other pins and the on board charger does all the work converting AC to DC.

 

[hbiss]

It's the same old story as with VFDs, A/Cs and pool pumps. The car electronics generates noise, perhaps even RF which causes the breakers to trip.

I'm not familiar with Eaton, are there any other manufacturers breakers that you could temporarily put a couple of in the Eaton panel?

-Hal

 

[jaggedben]

I think a EVSE is also supposed to generate the 1khz 12V square wave pulse. That tells the car how many amps it can pull.

Right, that's not the mains AC power to the car or the energy that charges the battery. Different wires. If the load is causing noise on the AC mains, that's most likely from the car not the EVSE.

 

[ActionDave]

It's the same old story as with VFDs, A/Cs and pool pumps. The car electronics generates noise, perhaps even RF which causes the breakers to trip.

I'm not familiar with Eaton, are there any other manufacturers breakers that you could temporarily put a couple of in the Eaton panel?

-Hal

Nooooooo! It can't be the breaker. It's the car. It's the amp level on the wall charger. It's the home owner that plugged the charger in wrong. It's aluminum panel bussing. It's the wrong kind of screws used to mount the gear to the wall. All that's needed to fix this problem is to get a different car and charger and a panel with copper bussing, mount everything to the wall with different screws and keep adjusting the level on the charger till you get it just right. The breakers are fine. Nothing ever goes wrong with AFCIs, every one of them gets kissed by an angel before they leave the factory.

 

[jaggedben]

I'm not familiar with Eaton, are there any other manufacturers breakers that you could temporarily put a couple of in the Eaton panel?

Not if you want them to be properly listed. (But if one is okay with just doing it for testing, pigtail Siemens Q or Homeline would fit and function...)

 

[hbiss]

Temporarily for testing purposes.

-Hal

 

[hbiss]

Nothing ever goes wrong with AFCIs, every one of them gets kissed by an angel before they leave the factory.

Kissed by the CFO as he says SUCKERS!

-Hal

 

[LarryFine]

Nooooooo! It can't be the breaker. It's the car. It's the amp level on the wall charger. It's the home owner that plugged the charger in wrong. It's aluminum panel bussing. It's the wrong kind of screws used to mount the gear to the wall. All that's needed to fix this problem is to get a different car and charger and a panel with copper bussing, mount everything to the wall with different screws and keep adjusting the level on the charger till you get it just right. The breakers are fine. Nothing ever goes wrong with AFCIs, every one of them gets kissed by an angel before they leave the factory.

 

[ptonsparky]

Nooooooo! It can't be the breaker. It's the car. It's the amp level on the wall charger. It's the home owner that plugged the charger in wrong. It's aluminum panel bussing. It's the wrong kind of screws used to mount the gear to the wall. All that's needed to fix this problem is to get a different car and charger and a panel with copper bussing, mount everything to the wall with different screws and keep adjusting the level on the charger till you get it just right. The breakers are fine. Nothing ever goes wrong with AFCIs, every one of them gets kissed by an angel before they leave the factory.

Finally, something we can all agree on.

View attachment 2581630

Never heard of it.

 

[ramsy]

NAHB is tracking efforts to ban xFCI junk.

 

[curt swartz]

NAHB is tracking efforts to ban xFCI junk.

No they aren't. They are just showing adoption in different states.

Can you provide a list of states the accepted AFCI's and GFCI's as part of their code then removed them?

Also some states don't have a state wide code adoption, its up to the local jurisdictions.

 

[yo_ryco]

Have you verified that the EVSE was installed correctly by the user? I’m grabbing at straws here….could he have connected the neutral conductor of the branch circuit to the ground terminal of the EVSE which is somehow feeding noise back to the neutrals of the AFCIs?

I did verify that he wired it up properly. He also installed 2 chokes to try to mitigate any noise

 

[yo_ryco]

The homeowner has reported to me that he turned the charger back to 10a and let the vehicle charge overnight. He's telling me that none of the breakers tripped and during charging, all the test buttons operated as they should....now I'm really at a loss. Can anyone tell me - does lower current mean lower harmonics?

 

[TwistLock]

I once asked Siemens support about chokes for something similar. Here’s part of the email “Ferrites are effective for small signal EMI, not high-current, low frequency, time domain distortions that AFCIs respond to. AFCIs don’t trip so much on RF alone as on current waveform behavior, which ferrites don’t meaningfully clean up in your case. Ferrites also saturate and lose impedance.”

As for lowering the current I would guess more current simply equals louder noise from electronics that rises to the trip threshold. And lower noise doesn’t mask whatever the trip/test generates.

 

[retirede]

The homeowner has reported to me that he turned the charger back to 10a and let the vehicle charge overnight. He's telling me that none of the breakers tripped and during charging, all the test buttons operated as they should....now I'm really at a loss. Can anyone tell me - does lower current mean lower harmonics?

Probably. I think you need to put an oscilloscope on it see what the noise looks like.

 

[jaggedben]

The homeowner has reported to me that he turned the charger back to 10a and let the vehicle charge overnight. He's telling me that none of the breakers tripped and during charging, all the test buttons operated as they should....now I'm really at a loss. Can anyone tell me - does lower current mean lower harmonics?

This just confirms what I'm saying, try another car. It may well be that the homeowner wants to change the breakers and not the car (though maybe they should also have the car looked at) but you might as well try to eliminate the EVSE from the equation.