Tesla Superchargers - Gas Station/Convenience Store

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designer82

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Working on a project where they're adding a Tesla supercharger network at a new gas station/convenience store.

Does anyone have some experience with this?

Would it be code compliant to feed the Superchargers with a different service from the transformer (to free-standing service equipment)?
Or would the typical convention be to feed the Superchargers from the Convenience store?

I appreciate your help and guidance on this.

Picture of Site Plan here:
ibb.co

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I doubt the existing service is large enough for (8) superchargers.
Looking at the location f your proposed equipment and POCOs transformer my guess would be you would feed from there transformer
(which also may need to be upsized)
 
augie47 said:
I doubt the existing service ...
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The word "prop" (proposed?) appears all over that print. I think this is forthcoming new construction.

Talk to the power company as soon as possible. The existing neighborhood distribution might not have the necessary capacity. A Tesla supercharger v.3 (introduced 2019) requires 250 kW. Depending on the diversity factor you opt to design around, that could be as much as 2 megawatts.

Also talk to people to see what kind of federal, state & municipal grants & rebates are available. No need to leave money on the table.
 
drcampbell said:
The word "prop" (proposed?) appears all over that print. I think this is forthcoming new construction.

Talk to the power company as soon as possible. The existing neighborhood distribution might not have the necessary capacity. A Tesla supercharger v.3 (introduced 2019) requires 250 kW. Depending on the diversity factor you opt to design around, that could be as much as 2 megawatts.

Also talk to people to see what kind of federal, state & municipal grants & rebates are available. No need to leave money on the table.
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It will be interesting to see if the capital costs can be recovered by customers dropping by to charge up. I suspect there will be more success along major highways. I couldn't see it working for my local QuickChek.
 
What will this do for the store's demand charges from the utility?...I have read of huge bills from the demand charges where this type of EV charging has been installed.
 
It states “Non-Tesla”, so these aren’t Superchargers. They could even be level 2 AC. Time for an RFI.

Edit, only one station is marked non-Tesla. It does reference some plans “by others”.
 
designer82 said:
Working on a project where they're adding a Tesla supercharger network at a new gas station/convenience store.

Does anyone have some experience with this?

Would it be code compliant to feed the Superchargers with a different service from the transformer (to free-standing service equipment)?
Or would the typical convention be to feed the Superchargers from the Convenience store?

I appreciate your help and guidance on this.

Picture of Site Plan here:
ibb.co

EV-Chargers-Question hosted at ImgBB

Image EV-Chargers-Question hosted in ImgBB
ibb.co ibb.co
Click to expand...
If these are truly Tesla super chargers each of those cabinets will require a 600 amp service at 480V/3PH. The last two we have done have required this. They also have a version that can only serve (2) chargers at a time and those require a 250 amp service at 480V/3PH.
 
I wonder how much you can mark up the kilowatt-hours? Are there any regulations to limit your markup? Anyone know how much your typical chargers cost?

I'd be tempted to have an option on the charger for "Premium Electrons" at an additional cost
 
Knightryder12 said:
If these are truly Tesla super chargers each of those cabinets will require a 600 amp service at 480V/3PH. The last two we have done have required this. They also have a version that can only serve (2) chargers at a time and those require a 250 amp service at 480V/3PH.
Click to expand...
So a single super charger takes a circuit of about 125A@480 three phase? Do you know what the approx actual draw is?
 
hillbilly1 said:
In some states, only utilities can sell electricity.
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I doubt that is true. can you provide an example? I assume your statement is sloppily worded and you are referring specifically to submetering of electricity - that is electricity purchased from a utility and then resold to a third party. According to a resource on the NCSL.ORG website, there are Twenty-two states, three counties and Washington, D.C., that have statutes, regulations, or rulings on utility submetering. None of them outright prohibit the practice. From a quick glance on the summary and laws page they provide, it appears all of these regulations are for tenant/landlord situations.

Utility Submetering

overview of utility submetering policies, including a chart of existing state laws, statutes, regulations and rulings concerning metering.
www.ncsl.org
 
So if each super charger needs around 400kW I gotta wonder why they are using a 600A service at 480V?
Since your going to need a substation for each of these sites why not design to 600V, 2400V or 4160 ?

Regarding selling electricity, its not illegal i mean you can buy an aaa battery, I bet just like selling gas or diesel you need a way to make sure the measurements are accurate and the public is not getting ripped off. So these super chargers probably need to get certified or tested like a gas pump.
 
tortuga said:
So if each super charger needs around 400kW I gotta wonder why they are using a 600A service at 480V?
Since your going to need a substation for each of these sites why not design to 600V, 2400V or 4160 ?

Regarding selling electricity, its not illegal i mean you can buy an aaa battery, I bet just like selling gas or diesel you need a way to make sure the measurements are accurate and the public is not getting ripped off. So these super chargers probably need to get certified or tested like a gas pump.
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based on post #11, each charger would be more like 100kw no?

edit: according to wikipedia, superchargers are 72-250 KW depending on the version.
 
tortuga said:
So if each super charger needs around 400kW I gotta wonder why they are using a 600A service at 480V?
Since your going to need a substation for each of these sites why not design to 600V, 2400V or 4160 ?

Regarding selling electricity, its not illegal i mean you can buy an aaa battery, I bet just like selling gas or diesel you need a way to make sure the measurements are accurate and the public is not getting ripped off. So these super chargers probably need to get certified or tested like a gas pump.
Click to expand...
So they will come around with a jar that holds exactly one kilowatt-hour of electrons and fill it to the line :unsure:

Maybe they could just count them 6.24×10 to the 18th power per second
 
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Current vintage Superchargers are capable of 250 KW max. The next gen (V4) will be capable of 350 KW, but only when connected to 800V architecture vehicles.

When actually charging a car (usually 20-40 minutes) the maximum is rarely achieved and, if so, only for a few minutes. Most of the duration will be 125 KW or less for a 400V vehicle. 800V vehicles can sustain 250 KW, but that normally requires a 350 KW charger.
 
electrofelon said:
I doubt that is true. can you provide an example? I assume your statement is sloppily worded and you are referring specifically to submetering of electricity - that is electricity purchased from a utility and then resold to a third party. According to a resource on the NCSL.ORG website, there are Twenty-two states, three counties and Washington, D.C., that have statutes, regulations, or rulings on utility submetering. None of them outright prohibit the practice. From a quick glance on the summary and laws page they provide, it appears all of these regulations are for tenant/landlord situations.

Utility Submetering

overview of utility submetering policies, including a chart of existing state laws, statutes, regulations and rulings concerning metering.
www.ncsl.org
Click to expand...
Georgia was one of them, the company we were installing the chargers for, said they were working on getting the law changed. This was back when the chargers were free to use because the government (taxpayers) were paying for it. I have no doubt that they have changed the regulations by now. So how was that poorly worded? It may not be up to date info, but was factual at the time.
 
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