Tesla Superchargers - Gas Station/Convenience Store

[electrofelon]

Georgia was one of them, the company we were installing the chargers for, said they were working on getting the law changed. This was back when the chargers were free to use because the government (taxpayers) were paying for it. I have no doubt that they have changed the regulations by now. So how was that poorly worded? It may not be up to date info, but was factual at the time.

In many states you can own a black person. So how was that poorly worded? It may not be up to date info, but was factual at the time.

If what you were referring to was "back when the chargers were free" than how is that selling electricity anyway? I am just confused as to what you are claiming. Are you saying that Georgia used to have a law that prohibited electric car chargers?

 

[Knightryder12]

So a single super charger takes a circuit of about 125A@480 three phase? Do you know what the approx actual draw is?

As far as I know they do not make a single station super charger. But the two station type the load is 155kva and the load on the four station one is 387kva.

 

[Knightryder12]

I doubt that is true. can you provide an example? I assume your statement is sloppily worded and you are referring specifically to submetering of electricity - that is electricity purchased from a utility and then resold to a third party. According to a resource on the NCSL.ORG website, there are Twenty-two states, three counties and Washington, D.C., that have statutes, regulations, or rulings on utility submetering. None of them outright prohibit the practice. From a quick glance on the summary and laws page they provide, it appears all of these regulations are for tenant/landlord situations.

Utility Submetering

overview of utility submetering policies, including a chart of existing state laws, statutes, regulations and rulings concerning metering.

www.ncsl.org

I know in Florida you cannot resell electricity. In other words, you cannot put say an emon dmon meter on a tenants panel and sell him electricity. You can record the usage and charge the exact same rate as the utility.

 

[electrofelon]

I know in Florida you cannot resell electricity. In other words, you cannot put say an emon dmon meter on a tenants panel and sell him electricity. You can record the usage and charge the exact same rate as the utility.

Correct. That is a common requirement that the electricity not be "marked up" by the landlord. Some states allow a "reasonable fee" be added. Note these rules are typically for tenant/ landlord relationships and as far as I know there is no general restriction to "selling electricity".

 

[hillbilly1]

In many states you can own a black person. So how was that poorly worded? It may not be up to date info, but was factual at the time.

If what you were referring to was "back when the chargers were free" than how is that selling electricity anyway? I am just confused as to what you are claiming. Are you saying that Georgia used to have a law that prohibited electric car chargers?

I will say you will stay confused! They were free because they couldn’t charge for them. In no way did I say they were illegal to install. In South Carolina, the utility companies were having them installed because they could charge for them. Sorry facts confuse you.

 

[electrofelon]

I will say you will stay confused! They were free because they couldn’t charge for them. In no way did I say they were illegal to install. In South Carolina, the utility companies were having them installed because they could charge for them. Sorry facts confuse you.

Sorry for misunderstanding, I just find your posts confusing and scattered. You first said:

"This was back when the chargers were free to use because the government (taxpayers) were paying for it ."

which sounded to me like it was a government funded or subsidized charging station, and not a private venture.

Then you said:

"They were free because they couldn't charge for them"

It just seems all suspicious that a company would build these charging stations, not realizing that they couldnt charge for them, and then what the government "takes them over" and pays for the power? That seems to be what you are saying, Im just trying to reconcile all the statements. I suspect someone was incorrect or part of the story is missing. Currently, Georgia has no legislation on submetering, so i am skeptical there ever was such a restriction.

IT doesnt even really matter, I just am a stickler for accurate facts and information and I want to see the actual law or code section when someone says "you cant do that".

 

[miscenterprise]

Working on a project where they're adding a Tesla supercharger network at a new gas station/convenience store.

Does anyone have some experience with this?

Would it be code compliant to feed the Superchargers with a different service from the transformer (to free-standing service equipment)?
Or would the typical convention be to feed the Superchargers from the Convenience store?

I appreciate your help and guidance on this.

Picture of Site Plan here:

EV-Chargers-Question hosted at ImgBB

Image EV-Chargers-Question hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Ooh, where's the latest Neon going in?

Regarding the Superchargers, you're likely going to need a separately metered connection. In my experience, 1200A 480V 3 Phase is the most commonly used service for 8-stall Superchargers, although your utility would be the best bet for that information. However, I don't know if the chargers are necessarily your responsibility, as Tesla usually gets these stations designed in-house by their own E.Es.

That said, if you want external documentation, which might help you for this site, you can PM me and I'd be happy to send you site plan copies for similar sized stations, and maybe even other Tesla plans at Neon.


Best of luck.
H

 

[tortuga]

Tesla usually gets these stations designed in-house by their own E.Es.

Interesting do they always use 480 volt as the supply?
If I were designing these I would use 600/347 or something higher like 1000/577
and if the utility wont supply that at that load you could probably just be a 'primary' customer.

1200A 480V 3 Phase is the most commonly used service for 8-stall Superchargers

I wonder what size the utility transformer is. Thats right around 1000kVA.

 

[miscenterprise]

I've attached a one-line from another of Tesla's 8 stall sites (in Pennsylvania), which might better explain Tesla's utility requirements.

I'm not fully sure whether the 480V is supplied as primary or secondary, but I know that the Supercharger equipment (Tesla Cabinets) are rated at 480V.

I wonder what size the utility transformer is. Thats right around 1000kVA.

Utility Transformer is usually 1000kVA for 8-stall sites, yes.

one-line-tesla hosted at ImgBB

Image one-line-tesla hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[Fred B]

Utility Transformer is usually 1000kVA for 8-stall sites, yes.

1 million VA? wow

I've attached a one-line from another of Tesla's 8 stall sites (in Pennsylvania), which might better explain Tesla's utility requirements.

I'm not fully sure whether the 480V is supplied as primary or secondary, but I know that the Supercharger equipment (Tesla Cabinets) are rated at 480V.



Utility Transformer is usually 1000kVA for 8-stall sites, yes.

one-line-tesla hosted at ImgBB

Image one-line-tesla hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Is that correct, note #12 is requiring a measured grounding ohm to be 25ohm or less and adding grounding until it is reached?
Can see this scenario resulting. Contractor to inspector: "I've got a hundred rods and still only have 29Ohm. How many more rods do I need to add?" Engineered print would normally supersede the minimum requirement in NEC 250.53.

 

[retirede]

1 million VA? wow

Is that correct, note #12 is requiring a measured grounding ohm to be 25ohm or less and adding grounding until it is reached?
Can see this scenario resulting. Contractor to inspector: "I've got a hundred rods and still only have 29Ohm. How many more rods do I need to add?" Engineered print would normally supersede the minimum requirement in NEC 250.53.

No. One rod must be 25 ohms or less. There is no requirement once there is a second rod.

 

[tortuga]

I know that the Supercharger equipment (Tesla Cabinets) are rated at 480V.

1 million VA? wow

Yeah seems silly they picked 480, especially since its a innovative company and newish technology. I'd at least think they would be 600/347 or 1000/577

Engineered print would normally supersede the minimum requirement

Good point AHJ can inspect to the print, it would be better to just say "grounding per NEC"

 

[miscenterprise]

Isn't 600/347 the Canadian standard for three-phase? Wouldn't that require some kind of step up transformer since power companies usually suppy 480?

1000 would make sense, but I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that is only supplied in industrial settings, greatly reducing the amount of real estate on where Tesla could build their chargers

 

[wwhitney]

Yeah seems silly they picked 480

For EVs with 500VDC architecture, I would have thought 480VAC would be a good match. Is it so easy to do high power DC buck/boost?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[gadfly56]

No. One rod must be 25 ohms or less. There is no requirement once there is a second rod.

Per the NEC, yes. But the engineer booby-trapped the spec by requiring grounding rods until 25 ohms is reached. It is permissible for the design to exceed code requirements and the contractor will be bound by it.

 

[ggunn]

It is permissible for the design to exceed code requirements and the contractor will be bound by it.

For good reason. If a contractor were to be allowed to "value engineer" a design on the fly, what would be the point in getting it sealed by a PE?

 

[Joethemechanic]

When they start installing those Megachargers at truck stops and terminals every charger is going to require 1,000 kva. I hope they plan on those Tesla cabinets using more than 480v

 

[Fred B]

Per the NEC, yes. But the engineer booby-trapped the spec by requiring grounding rods until 25 ohms is reached. It is permissible for the design to exceed code requirements and the contractor will be bound by it.

For good reason. If a contractor were to be allowed to "value engineer" a design on the fly, what would be the point in getting it sealed by a PE?

and so how is one to bid such requirement, unknown number of rods to get down to 25 Ohms. And what are the soils conditions and weather conditions at time of installation or GR testing as it will impact the test results as well.
(It's been raining for a week straight when we did the rods and initial testing, now it's been dry for a month and the AHJ now says its over the 25 ohm mark.)
I saw a M.H. video that demonstrated this and one test got quite a few rods to get to below 25 ohm

 

[tortuga]

Isn't 600/347 the Canadian standard for three-phase?

600/347 is available here from the utility. Yes its standard in Canada and that is the advantage as a 1000kVA padmounts are available and manufactured. 1000/577 I think would be custom.

Wouldn't that require some kind of step up transformer since power companies usually suppy 480?

No I am talking about having the utility supply a higher voltage. There is a campus here that is a 4160V customer.

1000 would make sense, but I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that is only supplied in industrial settings, greatly reducing the amount of real estate on where Tesla could build their chargers

I have never seen a 1000/577 V system, I just picked 1000V becasue I think its the highest voltage the NEC allows before your in MV.
Here a customer with needs this large can apply to be a primary customer, then the POCO will just supply and meter at their primary voltage, customer (Tesla) could supply whatever pad-mount they wanted, like a specialized 1000/577 V.

 

[tortuga]

For EVs with 500VDC architecture, I would have thought 480VAC would be a good match. Is it so easy to do high power DC buck/boost?

Cheers, Wayne

I would imagine its easier to step down the AC voltage to the DC.