testers, inspectors, & afci's

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Re: testers, inspectors, & afci's

I spoke to an engineer at UL today and he said there is nothing in writing anywhere that says the test button is the only way to test an AFCI breaker. What he did say is that it is the only effevtive way to test the breaker as it checks all the internal components to insure that they are working properly. The testers can not do what the button does so the button should be the test you use. If the button works the breaker works. That is the test that UL uses and endorses. Same can be said for the manufacturers.
 
Re: testers, inspectors, & afci's

Originally posted by davedottcom:
Like I've said in the other thread, I've never had one single nuisance trip. Granted, I only have about 30+ houses with them out there but that's about 70 AFCI breakers. 0 out of 70 says something!?
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It might say people don't call you back for them. Looking at callbacks isn't a very reliable way to tell if there are nuisance trips. "My treadmill overloads the bedroom circuit so I plug it in the hallway..."
 
Re: testers, inspectors, & afci's

Looking at callbacks isn't a very reliable way to tell if there are nuisance trips.
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It is based on the fact that they call if their GFCI trips so I think they would if the AFCI trips!
It seems like a logical conclusion to me. :)

Dave
 
Re: testers, inspectors, & afci's

Scott,

I also agree that you need to call a lawyer. Who does this inspector think he is holding up inspections for non sense like this? Maybe after the town pays out some money they will decide on getting a more qualified individual.
 
Re: testers, inspectors, & afci's

And we wonder why we live in such a litigious society :confused: it is hardly worth millions.

Suing is not the answer, but having the information provided to the inspector's superiors is not a bad idea, as you can prove that he knew this could have all been avoided with some common sense.
 
Re: testers, inspectors, & afci's

Pierre, that is the route that is being taken. The builder has all the info I found and is bringing it to the Board of Selectmen. The builder is a member of the town planning board so I assume he has some rapport with the selectmen. The inspector is known for being a pain in the rear.
 
Re: testers, inspectors, & afci's

It might be worth millions,all depends on how much damage he does to your name.If it costs you clients and you end up going under then he cost you the ability to get big and rich.Besides ,if you sue for 2 million it gets settled for a few hundred grand.Would wake that town up some.
 
Re: testers, inspectors, & afci's

Pierre,

I'm not a law suit happy person. The point is that he already talked to the inspector and tried to reason with him. This inspector his now holding up the final inspection......which means other things are being held up. If the inspector can't understand he is wrong, or at least comprehend that this is new technology and all the bugs are not out yet, then he has no business being an inspector. Perhaps if the city got sued and had to give up some of their cash they might consider hiring a new inspector....one with some real world experience.

I realize that inspectors have an important job and there are many many?good ones out there. However I have met my fair share of ignorant ones who have no business doing what they do!
 
Re: testers, inspectors, & afci's

Originally posted by davedottcom:
It is based on the fact that they call if their GFCI trips so I think they would if the AFCI trips!
It seems like a logical conclusion to me. :)
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Ugghhh... Now I remember why I don't work in customer service.
 
Re: testers, inspectors, & afci's

We do not need lawsuits started every time someone is offended or upset, but it almost seems to be the norm these days.
I do not see how his name has been dragged through the mud, or where personal harm has been had.

What I do see is an inspector who is either ignorant, stupid or on a power trip. Good inspectors rely on electricians in the field, manufacturers, and organizations such as UL for guidance. It would seem to me there is a lot of guidance that the electrician, manufacturer, and UL have provided. I always say it takes more of a man to admit to being wrong, than one who always thinks he is right.
 
Re: testers, inspectors, & afci's

Mr. pierre sir,
Somehow I get the feeling that you are in fact a credit to office, industry, and public, in the roll you serve sir.I do enjoy reading your postings Inspector..
 
Re: testers, inspectors, & afci's

Mr. dillon3c
I stand in agreement with you as to the statements of some of the posters in this forum. We have some very smart people that make wise statements.
As to the problem with the inspector mentioned in this post I feel the blame should in part be laid on all electrical contractors. Electrical contractors have been lead to refer to one person as the Authority Having Jurisdiction thus giving that person a superior complex when in reality they are only code enforcement officials.
As I read this post I have come to the conclusion that this person has the mentality that they have the ?Authority? but is about to learn that there is another Authority that is about to rain down on him.
 
Re: testers, inspectors, & afci's

Tipp'in my hat to u Mr. Instructor sir, wise words indeed.But seems like I'm spending to much time infront of this 'puter.I have Level I Classes that start next week in Granville County.I need to turn it off and dip into the fat red book,so I can make a "wise statement at sometime".(grin'in)Gooday form...
 
Re: testers, inspectors, & afci's

JW
I have to agree with you. I still say that it comes down to past practices that are now outdated in conjunction with more training that is needed for inspectors as well as electricians. Not just training for code and electrical knowledge, but PROPER training on how to conduct a proper inspection, including treating all people as you would want to be treated yourself (it would seem to be quite simple-yet it may not be).

I have now been on both sides of the fence and have formed some very definite ideas as to how some reform needs to be performed to help reduce some of the mass confusion out there (both sides).

I have been told by more than one person a saying which I like very much. "We were given two ears and one mouth, listening should be given the priority".
Some who come into the inspection field remember how it used to be :( ... part of the training I am thinking of is the business aspect of inspections.
1. drop the ego 2. listen and learn 3. don't get personal, its a business 4. We are all in this together, and should work toward a common goal - help grow a safe, respected and prosperous industry.
 
Re: testers, inspectors, & afci's

I went by the Ideal booth at the Electric West Show here yesterday. They had a little test box to demonstrate their AFCI tresters. What kind of breaker was in it??? That's right a S/D with the blue button. :D Gotta love it.
The sales rep, someone I've dealt with a few times told me that S/D won't give up the proprietary data re: trip characteristics of the AFCI function. He also told me that in a clear view AFCI breaker, it appears all the test button does is a mechanical trip function. That doesn't sound right to me though, but I have not seen a clear view breaker.
 
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