The 6 disconnects

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aftershock

aftershock

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Memphis, TN
I'm working a job at a condo building. There are troughs, meters and disconnects grouped in 6 in a few places. Where I am working there are 6 disconnects from 6 meters about 6' to the right of a trough where I have placed a meter and a disconnect.
Now all these are or seem to be coming from the same transformer.
Do you see any code problems with this?

The other thing. My trough already has 3 legs, a neutral and a ground coming into it. The ground I think is connected to the building steel. My boss does not seem to think I will have to sink a ground rod. I tried anyway and 4 holes later could only get the rod in 6' before hitting something solid even trying up to 45 degrees.
I'm wondering if I will have to sink a ground rod.
 
aftershock said:
I'm working a job at a condo building. There are troughs, meters and disconnects grouped in 6 in a few places. Where I am working there are 6 disconnects from 6 meters about 6' to the right of a trough where I have placed a meter and a disconnect.
Now all these are or seem to be coming from the same transformer.
Do you see any code problems with this?

The other thing. My trough already has 3 legs, a neutral and a ground coming into it. The ground I think is connected to the building steel. My boss does not seem to think I will have to sink a ground rod. I tried anyway and 4 holes later could only get the rod in 6' before hitting something solid even trying up to 45 degrees.
I'm wondering if I will have to sink a ground rod.
Click to expand...

You should give 250.50 a read. If you are using a Metal water pipe, then you would need the 2 ground rods NEC 2008 253.(D)(2),E also 250.56, (assuming the first didnt give you a 25 ohm or less if it did you would have to PROVE it in most cases)
also, you can did a trench 30in deep if the 45 did not work.

If it is building steel, then no rods are needed. Just verify it and be sure it bonded correctly 250.52 (A) (2).
 
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aftershock said:
I'm working a job at a condo building. There are troughs, meters and disconnects grouped in 6 in a few places. Where I am working there are 6 disconnects from 6 meters about 6' to the right of a trough where I have placed a meter and a disconnect.
Now all these are or seem to be coming from the same transformer.
Do you see any code problems with this?
Click to expand...

I do. You already have 6 discos grouped. Now you're adding #7... clearly in violation.

The other thing. My trough already has 3 legs, a neutral and a ground coming into it. The ground I think is connected to the building steel. My boss does not seem to think I will have to sink a ground rod. I tried anyway and 4 holes later could only get the rod in 6' before hitting something solid even trying up to 45 degrees.
I'm wondering if I will have to sink a ground rod.
Click to expand...

You really have one service with 6 (and now you're adding a 7th) meters. But it's all one service... which should already have ground rods or building steel. I don't see how you're gonna get around not installing a single main disconnect though.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
I do. You already have 6 discos grouped. Now you're adding #7... clearly in violation.



You really have one service with 6 (and now you're adding a 7th) meters. But it's all one service... which should already have ground rods or building steel. I don't see how you're gonna get around not installing a single main disconnect though.
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08' has an exception to this,,,,but I'm not sure if this is a "house panel"


If it's another tenant panel, it's a violation
 
I didn't get the memo.

Where does it say a "house panel" is an exception to the 6 disc rule?

I have not seen any exception in 230.71 that allows that. Maybe I missed it.:-?
 
George Stolz said:
Agreed, there's no exception for "house panels".
Click to expand...



I don't even own an 08' cause I 'm on 05'. But I thought I remember someone stating there was an exception for adding a 7th disconnect to an already existing 6 disconnect service,if the 7th disconnect was for a common house panel. Again, I don't have an 08' I thought I remembered aomeone posting that.
 
mcclary's electrical said:
I don't even own an 08' cause I 'm on 05'. But I thought I remember someone stating there was an exception for adding a 7th disconnect to an already existing 6 disconnect service,if the 7th disconnect was for a common house panel. Again, I don't have an 08' I thought I remembered aomeone posting that.
Click to expand...


there are 4 but it is qualified.

For the purpose of this section, disconnecting means installed as part of listed equipment and used solely for the following shall not be considered a service disconnecting means:
(1) Power monitoring equipment
(2) Surge-protective device(s)
(3) Control circuit of the ground-fault protection system
(4) Power-operable service disconnecting means

225 has similar language
 
What I am getting is "Even if the feed is coming from the same xformer, but is in a different feed and trough, although it is 6' away from but on the same wall of the same building of, It would be a violation since it will be diconnect #7"

That sound about right?
 
aftershock said:
What I am getting is "Even if the feed is coming from the same xformer, but is in a different feed and trough, although it is 6' away from but on the same wall of the same building of, It would be a violation since it will be diconnect #7"

That sound about right?
Click to expand...

That is one confusing sentence to decipher
 
aftershock said:
What I am getting is "Even if the feed is coming from the same xformer, but is in a different feed and trough, although it is 6' away from but on the same wall of the same building of, It would be a violation since it will be diconnect #7"

That sound about right?
Click to expand...

That's correct.
 
George Stolz said:
That's correct.
Click to expand...

George, I have to admit after seeing this subject for decades, I'm still confused. If you have a Handbook, look at Exhibit 230.8.
I know the Handbook is not gospel, but it depicts what I would say is exactly that--two separate laterals from one transformer to two locations on the same building, each with 6 disconnects.
Exhibit 230.4 depicts the same thing with overhead.

Apparently this is excepted in some areas, I assume under 230.2(B)
 
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