The chickens have come home...to roost!

Status
Not open for further replies.
electricmanscott

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
The hell of the AFCI has begun. Two calls in the past few days from two different customers for breakers tripping and guess what type they are. Yep combo afcis. One, I spent considerable time troubleshooting and have found nothing. The other nothing yet.

The one that I did trouble shoot showed and "arcing fault" acording to the led on the breaker. Not an arc fault to ground, not an overcurrent condition.

As far as I know the trip occured when a light switch was flipped on.

These breakers have been installed for about a month and have been fine untill this week.

I need a crying smiley.
 
Here you go Scott.

sad-smiley-021.gif



Roger
 
There may be more to come as the number of installations increase, but we will be the ones to pay for the time spent troubleshooting.
 
What brand are these that are causing trouble?

It looks like I'm going to be returning the Homeline combo breaker I bought to install in my house. Oh well. :roll:
 
Last edited:
Are the faults occurring when switches are flipped, machines turn on, etc., and when you get there all is OK?
 
fault

fault

we have problems here in nz occasionally, when someone turns on a switch the rcd trips, most of the time it can be traced back to a lamp blowing on the circuit just being switched on. just something to keep an eye on when fault finding.:)
 
Customer was hanging his dog tags on his vanity light, like the one pictured below, in the master bathroom. He would wake up in the morning to find he didn't have any power in the master bedroom and to the bathroom lights.

He would shower, get dressed, and put his dog tags on for the day. Then he would go down to the panel in the basement, find the AFCI breaker was tripped and reset it. He would come home at the end of the day, hang his dog tags on the vanity light again, and the process would repeat itself all over again.

The chain for the dog tags was making contact with the outer shell of the light bulb and the metal casing of the vanity light. He had no idea that hanging his dog tags on the vanity light was causing a problem.

If it weren't for the fact that he stayed home the day I came out to troubleshoot and didn't put on his dog tags I wouldn't have found the problem. I would never have supsected he was hanging his dog tags on the vanity light.

VanityLight.jpg
 
georgestolz said:
Aline, it's a small world - my boss had a similar trouble call from a woman hanging a necklace on her vanity. Weird. :)
Click to expand...


Who are these people that think it is a good idea to hang stuff on a flimsy piece of glass glued into a flimsy piece of aluminum inches away from 120 volts?
 
My favorite was a couple who called to say their thermostat wouldn't turn their furnace on. It was the middle of an extremely cold February, highs in the single digits.

I went out, and the old dial-type Honeywell stat seemed to work just fine.

They called the next day and said the furnace hadn't come on at all last night, and they're getting cold.

So back out I go, and sure enough, no problem.... Turn it up, the burners kick on. Pretty soon the blower starts, and everything is cool. OK, bad choice of words.....

The next day, they call yet again and say I must not know what I'm doing. So I trek back out there with a new stat to replace what appears to be an old stat with an intermittent problem.

As I start to remove the old stat from the wall, I notice 4 square indentations in the carpet under where the stat is located. I ask if there's a chair or something that normally goes there.

They reply, "No, just the TV."

Now, this was back in the 70s, and the TV was an old, tube-type set that had heaters in the tubes to keep them warm so the set could be marketed as 'instant-on'......:)

So the heat would rise out of the back of the TV, and make the thermostat think it's 90? in the house and never call for heat. When they called me, they would pick up the TV and move it out of my way before I arrived.....:mad: :mad: :rolleyes: :cool:
 
jaylectricity said:
Who are these people that think it is a good idea to hang stuff on a flimsy piece of glass glued into a flimsy piece of aluminum inches away from 120 volts?
Click to expand...

who are the people making the flimsy things with 120 volts in them ?

FWIW, I wonder if we are going to start finding out that the 49 cent switches some guys install are arcing too much ?
 
480sparky said:
My favorite was a couple who called to say their thermostat wouldn't turn their furnace on. It was the middle of an extremely cold February, highs in the single digits.

I went out, and the old dial-type Honeywell stat seemed to work just fine.

They called the next day and said the furnace hadn't come on at all last night, and they're getting cold.

So back out I go, and sure enough, no problem.... Turn it up, the burners kick on. Pretty soon the blower starts, and everything is cool. OK, bad choice of words.....

The next day, they call yet again and say I must not know what I'm doing. So I trek back out there with a new stat to replace what appears to be an old stat with an intermittent problem.

As I start to remove the old stat from the wall, I notice 4 square indentations in the carpet under where the stat is located. I ask if there's a chair or something that normally goes there.

They reply, "No, just the TV."

Now, this was back in the 70s, and the TV was an old, tube-type set that had heaters in the tubes to keep them warm so the set could be marketed as 'instant-on'......:)

So the heat would rise out of the back of the TV, and make the thermostat think it's 90? in the house and never call for heat. When they called me, they would pick up the TV and move it out of my way before I arrived.....:mad: :mad: :rolleyes: :cool:
Click to expand...

THAT is irony
 
dbuckley said:
These are AFCIs being discussed, which we Kiwis don't have; an RCD is about the same as a GFCI, only six times less sensitive.
Click to expand...


So it trips at 30mA, or 0.833? My brain isn't working well tonight.
 
What residential contractors may have to do is put together a statement to be signed by the HO..

This installation complies with the most recent NEC requirements for ARC fault CBs, there may be possible issues with these devices beyond the control of the installing contractor any service calls to reset and trouble shh\ot the circuits will be billable. Should the issue with the tripped device be related to a wiring issue the call will not be billable.


I am no lawyer but it is a WEAK start.
 
I think what you are talking about is a limited warranty. something like:

company x warrants our labor for a period of one year. warranty on materials is limited to explicit manufacturers warranties. no other warranties are included in this contract except as required by state and local requirements.


don't know if this is legal in all states, consult your lawyer.
 
I think a better result could be obtained by all EC's joining up with some high power legal firm and suing the manufacturer. Start recording all those trouble calls!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top