The chickens have come home...to roost!

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Some computer faults that take weeks to troubleshoot can be fixed in one afternoon by a data recorder device (a logic analyzer) that babysits the signals on dozens of lines until the fault shows up, and then dumps its memory and shows what happened just before the fault.
Of course, it costs kilobucks.

I don't know if anyone makes something like this for this type problem, but I guess it would monitor what the AFCI is supposed to trip on, along with line voltage and any other thing that might influence it.
This would certainly be useful for circuit breakers that trip for no reason that you can find once you get there.

You leave it in place until the fault, and the signals you need to troubleshoot are digitally captured in memory, just as if you were standing there at the time.
They have them for cars.

On the other hand, these things are supposed to filter our invalid glitches and trip on valid signals only. Maybe the next generation, Rev. A, of these things will solve all the problems that the salesmen denied that the first generation ever had.
I'm sure the thing worked perfectly in the lab!
 
Mike told us!

Mike told us!

I recall a newsletter or something that when afci's were being considered, Mike Holt warned of all the problems and was not very supportive of afci's. One of his concerns was once property owners had enough headaches with afci's that they would just pull them and pop in a standard breaker anyway!
 
electricmanscott said:
The one that I did trouble shoot showed and "arcing fault" acording to the led on the breaker. Not an arc fault to ground, not an overcurrent condition.
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Scott, are these Siemens AFCI's?
 
i asked the guys at the supply house the other day if they were going to get the combo afci's (square D). they said they've never heard of them. are any of you getting them yet?
 
brantmacga said:
are any of you getting them yet?
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Yup. Combo AFCIs have been available in the Twin Cities since January. They've been required since Jan. 01.
 
We just started installing AFCIs in Dec. They were the last of the non combination style. Happened to be on the job yesterday when carpenter complained that the 20 Amp CB was tripping before his Dewalt double insulated 2 wire miter saw would get to speed. Enough sparking at the brushes to trip the AFCI. Worked fine on the GFCI recepts in kitchen. Tenants may have to run cord to kitchen to vacum, but hey, the AFCI worked.
 
article on AFCI's

article on AFCI's

Seems people are going to have to get their houses up to code whether they want to or not.
 
work or not?

work or not?

ptonsparky said:
We just started installing AFCIs in Dec. They were the last of the non combination style. Happened to be on the job yesterday when carpenter complained that the 20 Amp CB was tripping before his Dewalt double insulated 2 wire miter saw would get to speed. Enough sparking at the brushes to trip the AFCI. Worked fine on the GFCI recepts in kitchen. Tenants may have to run cord to kitchen to vacum, but hey, the AFCI worked.
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You know what is important is not that the afci's work or not, but the fact that we are having to buy them!
 
langjahr@comcast.net said:
Some computer faults that take weeks to troubleshoot can be fixed in one afternoon by a data recorder device (a logic analyzer) that babysits the signals on dozens of lines until the fault shows up, and then dumps its memory and shows what happened just before the fault.
Of course, it costs kilobucks.

I don't know if anyone makes something like this for this type problem, but I guess it would monitor what the AFCI is supposed to trip on, along with line voltage and any other thing that might influence it.
This would certainly be useful for circuit breakers that trip for no reason that you can find once you get there.

You leave it in place until the fault, and the signals you need to troubleshoot are digitally captured in memory, just as if you were standing there at the time.
They have them for cars.

On the other hand, these things are supposed to filter our invalid glitches and trip on valid signals only. Maybe the next generation, Rev. A, of these things will solve all the problems that the salesmen denied that the first generation ever had.
I'm sure the thing worked perfectly in the lab!
Click to expand...

They don't all cost kilobucks. Ideal makes one just like this as well, but I am partial to one manufacturer:wink:

http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Fluke+VR1710.htm
 
electricmanscott said:
Started with GE switched to siemens. Other job is Murray. Common denominator......?
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It sounds like it, since they are all one and the same. That's what you get for using Siemens products. ;) :roll:
 
ItsHot said:
You know what is important is not that the afci's work or not, but the fact that we are having to buy them!
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I could not disagree more. Well I guess I could but I don't.

I don't care what I have to buy and I could not care any less what it costs since I am not paying for it. I just want it to work.
 
Yeesh! :mad:

It just occured to me how diabolical the manufacturer's web is.

Not only does the client purchase $$$ of AFCIs, and $$$ of trouble shooting labor is included somehow, but, also, the contractor is going to spend $$$$$$ on test equipment that will have to be replaced everytime the AFCI electronics and firmware evolve. And the contractor will also need to spend $$$$$$$$$ on data logging equipment in order to even blame the AFCI.

Boss Tweed: "Nothing personal, just buisiness." :roll:
 
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