The Next NEC

[randys]

Shall the next edition of the NEC state in 210.52 A 1 that the maximum spacing between any two receptacles is twelve feet and that the six foot rule is just a guideline for very small rooms.

Shall the next edition of the NEC state the requirements for receptacles placed on a wall in residences and / or commercial installations shall be between 12 & 18 inches from the floor and that in any installation all such receptacles shall be maintained at the pre-approved distance from the floor.

Shall the next edition of the NEC state that switches placed on walls shall be between 48 and 52 inches from the floor and that in any installation all such switches shall be maintained at the pre-approved distance from the floor.

 

[quogueelectric]

Shall the next edition of the NEC state in 210.52 A 1 that the maximum spacing between any two receptacles is twelve feet and that the six foot rule is just a guideline for small rooms.

Shall the next edition of the NEC state the requirements for receptacles placed on a wall in residences and / or commercial installations shall be between 12 & 18 inches from the floor and that in any installation all receptacles shall be maintained at the pre-approved distance from the floor.

Shall the next edition of the NEC state that switches placed on walls shall be between 48 and 52 inches from the floor and that in any installation all such switches shall be maintained at the pre-approved distance from the floor.

Lots of good questions with unknown answers. What is your position on said questions above??

 

[iwire]

Shall the next edition of the NEC state in 210.52 A 1 that the maximum spacing between any two receptacles is twelve feet

It already does.

Shall the next edition of the NEC state the requirements for receptacles placed on a wall in residences and / or commercial installations shall be between 12 & 18 inches from the floor and that in any installation all such receptacles shall be maintained at the pre-approved distance from the floor. .

In my opinion no.

Shall the next edition of the NEC state that switches placed on walls shall be between 48 and 52 inches from the floor and that in any installation all such switches shall be maintained at the pre-approved distance from the floor.

In my opinion no.

 

[randys]

To quogueelectric

To quogueelectric

210.52 A 1 currently states, " Spacing, Receptacles shall be installed such that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet."

As it currently stands, one could assume that receptacles could be placed 6 feet apart when in actuality 12 feet is the current standard.

Receptacle placed in walls should be specified on Blueprints as to their placement and accepted height. When the Blueprint doesn't specify the distance from the floor, what then is the accepted standard placement of receptacles from the floor? 15 inches?

The same is true of wall switches, when the Blueprints do not specify, what then is the accepted standard placement? 50 inches ?

 

[randys]

To Iwire"

To Iwire"

Sure most who study the NEC and actually do electrical wiring know that 210.52 A 1 means 12 feet between receptacles.

Sure, although not mentioned in the NEC, most who study the NEC and actually do electrical work know that receptacles are placed 12 - 18 inches from the floor.

And you are right again, although not mentioned in the NEC, most electrical workers who plan on becoming journeymen or Licensed Master Electricians know that switches are placed 48 - 52 inches above the floor.

Anyone can see the potential for guessing the distance from the floor and not actually measuring it could cause a see-saw line in the placement of boxes. Would the owner who pays for such work be justified in being dissatisfied if the deviation from a straight line in the placement was greater than expected.

 

[e57]

Shall the next edition of the NEC state the requirements for receptacles placed on a wall in residences and / or commercial installations shall be between 12 & 18 inches from the floor and that in any installation all such receptacles shall be maintained at the pre-approved distance from the floor.

Shall the next edition of the NEC state that switches placed on walls shall be between 48 and 52 inches from the floor and that in any installation all such switches shall be maintained at the pre-approved distance from the floor.

It's already bad enough that the ADA is going a little too far in some ways, and is purposely vague because they change it all the time - just for something to do, and give litigious people more people to sue. Adding these to the NEC as residential requirements opens a pandora's box that would soon allow the flood gates of wheel chair accessibility into peoples homes. Imagine a world where every time you remodel your home you need to add a ramp, elevator, grab bars, 10' turning radius at your crapper, huge roll in showers, knee high sinks, uncomfortably low counters. Commercial customers when budgeting these items often scrap plans to do anything due to high costs of those items alone, if not solely for loss of usable space. Why force it into my home? Since they are already required by ADA in commercial settings - why duplicate the wheel chair design codes in the NEC? Which is not meant to be an all inclusive building standard, or design manual.

 

[e57]

When the Blueprint doesn't specify the distance from the floor, what then is the accepted standard placement of receptacles from the floor? 15 inches?

The same is true of wall switches, when the Blueprints do not specify, what then is the accepted standard placement? 50 inches ?

Whatever I want it to be in MY home. And whatever my client wants it to be in their home...

Sure, although not mentioned in the NEC, most who study the NEC and actually do electrical work know that receptacles are placed 12 - 18 inches from the floor.

And you are right again, although not mentioned in the NEC, most electrical workers who plan on becoming journeymen or Licensed Master Electricians know that switches are placed 48 - 52 inches above the floor.

Anyone can see the potential for guessing the distance from the floor and not actually measuring it could cause a see-saw line in the placement of boxes. Would the owner who pays for such work be justified in being dissatisfied if the deviation from a straight line in the placement was greater than expected.

These distances are vaguely stated in the ADA who like to change their minds about how it is interpreted - so some members of their constituency can sue the next place they go into and make a living doing so.

Commercial guys know these distances only by proxy of the ADA, any Residential guy worth his salt would not force this tripe on their clients.

Seeing outlets of any kind at a distance and not being level usually means the floor isn't. And people who pay for the best usually get level floors, and pay good craftsmen of all trades, be it rockers for level-5 walls, or electricians for aesthetic placement.

 

[electricmanscott]

210.52 A 1 currently states, " Spacing, Receptacles shall be installed such that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet."

As it currently stands, one could assume that receptacles could be placed 6 feet apart when in actuality 12 feet is the current standard.

Receptacle placed in walls should be specified on Blueprints as to their placement and accepted height. When the Blueprint doesn't specify the distance from the floor, what then is the accepted standard placement of receptacles from the floor? 15 inches?

The same is true of wall switches, when the Blueprints do not specify, what then is the accepted standard placement? 50 inches ?

I am smart enough not to need my hand held for such insignificant things such as this. If somebody is about to mount boxes and doesn't know what to do they are the last person I would want working with the wiring that is going into those boxes.

Receptacles can be installed 6 feet apart so I don't see the issue you are looking at. 12 feet isn't a standard distance between receptacles it is a maximum allowance.

 

[electricmanscott]

BTW, did you submit proposals for your ideas? :-?

 

[roger]

Randy, I think 90.1(C) already addresses your concerns about device placement

(C) Intention This Code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons.

Roger

 

[cpal]

210.52 A 1 currently states, " Spacing, Receptacles shall be installed such that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet."

As it currently stands, one could assume that receptacles could be placed 6 feet apart when in actuality 12 feet is the current standard.

Receptacle placed in walls should be specified on Blueprints as to their placement and accepted height. When the Blueprint doesn't specify the distance from the floor, what then is the accepted standard placement of receptacles from the floor? 15 inches?

?

The Code is a minimum standard. I like the receptacles every 6 feet, it's my house who cares?

Receptacle placed in walls should be specified on Blueprints as to their placement and accepted height. When the Blueprint doesn't specify the distance from the floor, what then is the accepted standard placement of receptacles from the floor? 15 inches?
?

What about ADA?? WHat if you want floor receptacles what if you are installing wood paneling and want the receptacles 6" aff IN THE MOP BOARD


the language is fine as it is ,

 

[480sparky]

..........The same is true of wall switches, when the Blueprints do not specify, what then is the accepted standard placement? 50 inches ?

Depends on what the finish wall surface is made of.

If it's tile, what's the dimensions? Is there going to be a soldier course at the top? Do I want my switch in the tile or over the soldier course?

Or is it drywall? Then take your pick. If you've got 8' ceilings, then 50" will make the sheetrockers happy.

I do a lot of log homes, and 8" tall logs put me at 52" no ifs ands or buts.

I've seen wainscotting anywhere from 40" to 60". Some with chair rails, some without.

How about switches next to stairs? How do you measure that?

Soometimes, there's a simple 2- or 3-riser stairway from the garage into the house. Do I measure the NEC-mandated height from the bottom of the door, or from the concrete?

Given the realm of possibilities. the NEC cannot dictate a switch height without getting into a shopping list. It leaves it as a 'design issue' for the installer to choose.


BTW, the 'next' NEC is already in the works. Any changes you want to propose will have to wait for the '14.

 

[alex_713]

Depends on what the finish wall surface is made of.

If it's tile, what's the dimensions? Is there going to be a soldier course at the top? Do I want my switch in the tile or over the soldier course?

Or is it drywall? Then take your pick. If you've got 8' ceilings, then 50" will make the sheetrockers happy.

I do a lot of log homes, and 8" tall logs put me at 52" no ifs ands or buts.

I've seen wainscotting anywhere from 40" to 60". Some with chair rails, some without.

How about switches next to stairs? How do you measure that?

Soometimes, there's a simple 2- or 3-riser stairway from the garage into the house. Do I measure the NEC-mandated height from the bottom of the door, or from the concrete?

Given the realm of possibilities. the NEC cannot dictate a switch height without getting into a shopping list. It leaves it as a 'design issue' for the installer to choose.


BTW, the 'next' NEC is already in the works. Any changes you want to propose will have to wait for the '14.

and sometimes there are even more special circumstances involved. For instance, here in south Louisiana, some multistory homes built in flood zones do not have any electrical devices on the bottom floor below 50 inches aff (or whatever the flood zone is specifically).