The Orange Conductor

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jbolen

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I have a project with all the different yoltages 208, 240 and 480 all three phase.

Question: The specs and and the engineer are calling for "orange" on B phase on both 240 w/high leg and B Phase on the 480/277. I was under the impression the conductors were brown , purple and yellow on 480/277.
 
jbolen said:
I have a project with all the different yoltages 208, 240 and 480 all three phase.

Question: The specs and and the engineer are calling for "orange" on B phase on both 240 w/high leg and B Phase on the 480/277. I was under the impression the conductors were brown , purple and yellow on 480/277.
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There is no color code specific to a voltage. You can use brown, purple , yellow for a 3 phase wye as long as there is a directory at the service showing the phase colors for the different voltages. They must be consistent throughout.

Is the 480v/277 a high leg- I never heard of it - but that doesn't mean much. lol. I thought orange was only for the high leg. I don't believe you can mark both systems with the same color....
 
There is nothing in the code that says you can only use orange on a high leg. There is nothing in the code that says you must use orange for the high leg.

210.5(C) would prohibit the use of orange for both the high leg and one phase of the 480 volt system.
 
I thought the NEC did -somewhere- specify orange for the 'high leg' of a 340/120 system. Am I imagining things?

Code does require different systems to be marked differently, so using orange in both is a problem waiting to happen.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
There is nothing in the code that says you can only use orange on a high leg. There is nothing in the code that says you must use orange for the high leg.

210.5(C) would prohibit the use of orange for both the high leg and one phase of the 480 volt system.
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Don, I'm not sure I understand that because 210.5(C) does not say anything about orange,unless you mean because there both systems are in the same building?
 
renosteinke said:
I thought the NEC did -somewhere- specify orange for the 'high leg' of a 340/120 system. Am I imagining things?

Code does require different systems to be marked differently, so using orange in both is a problem waiting to happen.
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Oh I see it now that's in 110.15 high leg must orange in color.
 
210.5(C) doesn't say anything about the orange, what it says is that you have to identify the colors you are using for each system, (blk-red-blue-white 110/240, Brown-orange-yellow-Gray 277/480) and then you have to carry those colors through out the building. You may list as many color as you want and nothing says that they have to be the colors I stated (they were for example only), but you can't half way through the building change brown to 110v from 277V.

So point being, you can't use orange for two different things.
 
cowboyjwc said:
210.5(C) doesn't say anything about the orange, what it says is that you have to identify the colors you are using for each system, (blk-red-blue-white 110/240, Brown-orange-yellow-Gray 277/480) and then you have to carry those colors through out the building. You may list as many color as you want and nothing says that they have to be the colors I stated (they were for example only), but you can't half way through the building change brown to 110v from 277V.

So point being, you can't use orange for two different things.
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110.15 does state that the high leg must be marked durably and permanently by an outer finish that is orange in color or by other effective means. This means that I assume you could use a marker that says high leg-- I have never seen anything other than orange used. Once it is used as a high leg it cannot be used somewhere else in the building.
 
I've had a inspector force me to use orange on the 277/480 when I already had orange for the high leg on the 120/240 system, tried my best to explain to him why I couldn't use it on the 480 because I am required to use it on the other system to no avail. I had to change my purple to orange to pass inspection. A semi-industry standard right now is to use brown, orange and yellow for 277/480 volt systems, previously yellow, brown and purple was widely used, but is no longer wide spread due to in low light situations, purple and brown are hard to distinguish.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Yes, that is what I stated but who really uses other methods. For all intents and purposes orange it is.
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I blame the way 110.15 is worded. "an outer finish that is orange in color or by other effective means".

It gives you permission for "other effective means" yet kind of says it is to be orange. I think many feel it must be orange just because of the way this article is written.

Marking the high leg seemed to commonly be done with red on a lot of older installations. I don't know how long the "orange" was in the NEC, but it often was the only marking on any of the phase conductors. Inspectors I run into would turn this down on a new installation, yet if it is the only marking on any of the phase conductors what is there that is not "effective"?
 
IMO, 110.15 requires the high leg to be orange (if the method for identification is color) other methods besides color are accepted to be used for high leg identification. However, if color is used then it has to be orange.
 
edward said:
IMO, 110.15 requires the high leg to be orange (if the method for identification is color) other methods besides color are accepted to be used for high leg identification. However, if color is used then it has to be orange.
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That makes some sense, but if that is the intent, it could be worded better.
 
kwired said:
I blame the way 110.15 is worded. "an outer finish that is orange in color or by other effective means".

It gives you permission for "other effective means" yet kind of says it is to be orange. I think many feel it must be orange just because of the way this article is written.

Marking the high leg seemed to commonly be done with red on a lot of older installations. I don't know how long the "orange" was in the NEC, but it often was the only marking on any of the phase conductors. Inspectors I run into would turn this down on a new installation, yet if it is the only marking on any of the phase conductors what is there that is not "effective"?
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110.15 was added to the 2005 NEC,It may have been elswhere in the code before that.
 
edward said:
IMO, 110.15 requires the high leg to be orange (if the method for identification is color) other methods besides color are accepted to be used for high leg identification. However, if color is used then it has to be orange.
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I agree with that. That is why I stated earlier you could use a tag with high leg written. If color is used, IMO it must be orange.
 
LEO2854 said:
110.15 was added to the 2005 NEC,It may have been elswhere in the code before that.
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2002:

On a 4-wire, delta-connected system where the midpoint of one phase winding is grounded to supply lighting and similar loads, the conductor or busbar having the higher phase voltage to ground shall be durably and permanently marked by an outer finish that is orange in color or by other effective means. Such identification shall be placed at each point on the system where a connection is made if the grounded conductor is also present.
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2005:

On a 4-wire, delta-connected system where the midpoint of one phase winding is grounded, only the conductor or busbar having the higher phase voltage to ground shall be durably and permanently marked by an outer finish that is orange in color or by other effective means. Such identification shall be placed at each point on the system where a connection is made if the grounded conductor is also present.
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copied commentary in NEC Plus on that section: ?110.15: Revised paragraph to clarify application of special identification to the high leg only.

NEC plus does not go earlier than 2002, I'm pretty sure this requirement has been in there a long time but has moved from elsewhere at some point. For some reason can't find my 1999 NEC but my 1996 does not have a 110.15. 1996 does have similar wording in 384-3(e) Which 384 at that time was titled Switchboards and Panelboards, so this requirement likely moved when code was rearranged and 384 ended up becoming 408, which was either 1999 or 2002.
 
kwired said:
2002:



2005:



copied commentary in NEC Plus on that section: ?110.15: Revised paragraph to clarify application of special identification to the high leg only.

NEC plus does not go earlier than 2002, I'm pretty sure this requirement has been in there a long time but has moved from elsewhere at some point. For some reason can't find my 1999 NEC but my 1996 does not have a 110.15. 1996 does have similar wording in 384-3(e) Which 384 at that time was titled Switchboards and Panelboards, so this requirement likely moved when code was rearranged and 384 ended up becoming 408, which was either 1999 or 2002.
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Good info...:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Because of the Sections quoted it has been standard procedure in this area to use Brown-PURPLE-Yellow on 480 systems, in fact, one larger jurisdiction has a local Code that prohibits Orange for any use except high-leg 240/120.
Of course, as mentioned, other means of identification are allowed.

(I did find it interesting that Southwire provides an MC cable with Brown-Purple-Yellow)
 
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