jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Thank the Lord we had a safe trip home.
We had a blast while we were gone seeing friends that we hadn?t seen over the past year. The wife won a couple of door prizes and seemed to have a great time.
While I was at the meeting I learned a few things that I thought I already knew the answer to. I was so convinced that I knew what that I was talking about that I ask for a side bar where I could have more explanation. Here is what I learned about article 210.
The question that brought me to the microphone and subsequently the side bar is as follows:
210.11(C) states that two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits shall be provided for all receptacle outlets specified by 210.52(B).
Here we are told that at least two, but we can use more, circuits SHALL be provided for ALL the receptacles specified in .52(B)
In 210.52(B) states, circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment. There are two exceptions, one for a required lighting outlet and the other for the refrigeration equipment that can be installed on a 15 ampere circuit.
Here again we are told that ALL the receptacles are to be supplied by these 20 amp circuits. Here there is a key word that is used that I have over looked for a long time.
It states that these circuits are to supply the receptacles that are COVERED by (B) and (C). Jim Pauley stated that the word ?covered? was chosen so it wouldn?t be confused with the word ?required.?
In summation of what I have learned is that any receptacle that is installed in the rooms specified in 210.52(B) which will include those on the wall and the countertops weather island, peninsular or wall counter will be required to be supplied by a 20 ampere circuit and this is all encompassing. Appliance garages are included.
My side bar was with Jim Carpenter and Ron Chilton and was about the use of under cabinet lights. Much to my surprise I learned that a cord and plug light is nothing more than a listed piece of equipment and can be plugged into any receptacle outlined in 210.52(B) with out being a violation. Instead it would be a violation to install a 15 amp receptacle over the countertop and use it for the light. I was also told that any receptacle within 12 inches below and 20 inches above a countertop was a countertop receptacle no matter if it is inside, under, over or behind did not take away it?s use as a countertop receptacle but that it could not be counted as one of the ones that would otherwise be required (2 ft. and 4 ft. rule).
At this point I could hardly stay in my seat so I ask about the famous Iwire and JW discussion about ?direct connection? of these fixtures. They said in not so many words, ?Set down, shut up and listen when Bob speaks.? Cord and plug is not a direct connection and direct connection has nothing to do with OCPD.
Well after being whipped so badly I was reaching for anything that I could grab hold of and look good so I ask about calculations and here is what I got.
When doing the calculations for the service we only use the two required small appliance circuits unless we decide to use the exception in 210.52(B) and install a 15 ampere circuit for the refrigeration equipment or have more than one kitchen. Then we would include these in our calculations at 1500 volt amperes each.
Now if I could get you all to excuse me for a period of time I have a pot of crow and dumplings cooking that must be eaten.
Good to be home.
We had a blast while we were gone seeing friends that we hadn?t seen over the past year. The wife won a couple of door prizes and seemed to have a great time.
While I was at the meeting I learned a few things that I thought I already knew the answer to. I was so convinced that I knew what that I was talking about that I ask for a side bar where I could have more explanation. Here is what I learned about article 210.
The question that brought me to the microphone and subsequently the side bar is as follows:
I hit the floor running with my explanation of just what the NEC said about these circuits and receptacles as outlined in 210.11(C) and 210.52(B). At this point Jim Pauley (on panel 2) chimed in with the explanation as follows to the best of my ability.
210.11(C) states that two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits shall be provided for all receptacle outlets specified by 210.52(B).
Here we are told that at least two, but we can use more, circuits SHALL be provided for ALL the receptacles specified in .52(B)
In 210.52(B) states, circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment. There are two exceptions, one for a required lighting outlet and the other for the refrigeration equipment that can be installed on a 15 ampere circuit.
Here again we are told that ALL the receptacles are to be supplied by these 20 amp circuits. Here there is a key word that is used that I have over looked for a long time.
It states that these circuits are to supply the receptacles that are COVERED by (B) and (C). Jim Pauley stated that the word ?covered? was chosen so it wouldn?t be confused with the word ?required.?
In summation of what I have learned is that any receptacle that is installed in the rooms specified in 210.52(B) which will include those on the wall and the countertops weather island, peninsular or wall counter will be required to be supplied by a 20 ampere circuit and this is all encompassing. Appliance garages are included.
My side bar was with Jim Carpenter and Ron Chilton and was about the use of under cabinet lights. Much to my surprise I learned that a cord and plug light is nothing more than a listed piece of equipment and can be plugged into any receptacle outlined in 210.52(B) with out being a violation. Instead it would be a violation to install a 15 amp receptacle over the countertop and use it for the light. I was also told that any receptacle within 12 inches below and 20 inches above a countertop was a countertop receptacle no matter if it is inside, under, over or behind did not take away it?s use as a countertop receptacle but that it could not be counted as one of the ones that would otherwise be required (2 ft. and 4 ft. rule).
At this point I could hardly stay in my seat so I ask about the famous Iwire and JW discussion about ?direct connection? of these fixtures. They said in not so many words, ?Set down, shut up and listen when Bob speaks.? Cord and plug is not a direct connection and direct connection has nothing to do with OCPD.
Well after being whipped so badly I was reaching for anything that I could grab hold of and look good so I ask about calculations and here is what I got.
When doing the calculations for the service we only use the two required small appliance circuits unless we decide to use the exception in 210.52(B) and install a 15 ampere circuit for the refrigeration equipment or have more than one kitchen. Then we would include these in our calculations at 1500 volt amperes each.
Now if I could get you all to excuse me for a period of time I have a pot of crow and dumplings cooking that must be eaten.
Good to be home.
