The term "Isolated Ground" should go

Status
Not open for further replies.
E

Ed MacLaren

Senior Member
I've followed with interest the discussions with regard to proposals to change the term Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) to Equipment Bonding Conductor.

Isn't it also time to come up with a new term to replace "Isolated Ground"?

Firstly, it isn't isolated, (or at least it shouldn't be) and secondly, it won't be a "ground" once the above-mentioned change is made.

Continuing to use this mis-nomer perpetuates the notion among some in the industry that the conductor in question should be connected to a separate Grounding Electrode, which is dangerous and prohibited.

How about Insulated Bonding Conductor, or Dedicated Bonding Conductor?

Ed

[ January 20, 2005, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: Ed MacLaren ]
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

I completely agree with you Ed. I get so mad when vendors actually get all upity and say my equipment must have an isolated ground. No such animal, by code, and dangerous to do. All I have ever done is give them their ground rod and still wire up the correct EGC. I have yet to be brought on the carpet for adding an extra wire. But I have been on the carpet for not giving them their isolated ground. They usually don't even realize the EGC is there when they look right at it.
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

Ed: Can you please come up with names that are easier to abbreviate though? IG is really easy to say and remember, IBC and DBC are hard! :D :p
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

I Bee Ceeing it as a good idea, and my compadre D, Bee Ceeing it too. :D

I know, I'll keep my day job. ;)

Roger
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

How about this, "Individual Bonding Electrical Wire"? :D
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

Originally posted by charlie b:
How about this, "Individual Bonding Electrical Wire"? :D
Click to expand...
Well where would that leave us non union guys? Would we be allowed to install it too? :D

Roger
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

Good call Ed
I can't tell you how many times an electrician has said to me "Well it wouldn't be an Isolated Ground if I connected it to the equip grd buss in the XFMR; that's why I drove a ground rod"
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

I am sure that the task force is looking at that as well as the terms for bonding and grounding. Just be sure to look at the changes during the next Code making cycle and put comments in if you don't like what is happening. :D
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

Hello Ed-

You probably already know this, but for those who don't- IG originally stood for "insulated grounding" not "isolated ground". If insulated grounding was specified rather than isolated ground, I don't think we would have as many problems with this wiring method as we do now. Calling for isolated receptacles per 250.146(D)may help on the installation problems, but like many others, I don't believe these things have any redeeming value.

I'm not so sure that new terminology will resolve any problems related to IGs- or for that matter Article 250 in general. I think the bigger problem is the failure of persons to fully understand what the different elements of a grounding system actually do, and the importance of the main bonding jumper demarcation point. If you don't understand a components function in the system, calling an EGC an EBC won't change a thing.

Mark
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

I think the bigger problem is the failure of persons to fully understand what the different elements of a grounding system actually do
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree more.

About fifteen years ago, when the (Canadian Electrical Code) began using the term Bonding Conductor in place of Equipment grounding conductor, I was teaching Apprentices.

I found that it became much easier to explain the difference, in principle, and in function, between grounding and bonding conductors, after the name change.

Ed
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

Originally posted by charlie:
I am sure that the task force is looking at that as well as the terms for bonding and grounding.
Click to expand...
So there is a coordinated effort under way with the intention of changing these terms, right? Can we expect to see a radical change in 2008, and do you think it will be 99% correct the first try, or are we looking at half the chapter being changed and the other not? :)

Are there any related historical anecdotes about how successful these grand scope changes are?
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

George, this thread aside, Don has been championing a change (ROP's) to call the EGC what it really is, a bonding conductor for some time now. This conductor may or may not have a reference to ground . I personally think this change is waranted simply for what bonding achieves and has nothing to do with "Grounding"

Roger
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

George, each of the Code Making Panels are independent and they also answer to the Technical Correlating Committee. During the last cycle, some of the panels accepted the change and some rejected it. There were some places that the wholesale change did not work properly and needed to be tweaked. Those are the issues the task force is looking at to resolve.

I promise you that some errors will creep in but they will not be major . . . at least I don't think they will be major. :D
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

I am sure that the task force is looking at that as well as the terms for bonding and grounding. Just be sure to look at the changes during the next Code making cycle and put comments in if you don't like what is happening.
Click to expand...
Is that "Usability Task Force" Charlie?

Could you elaborate on "putting comments in". I didn't know we could "comment".

And When you say to look at changes during the cycle, do you mean the new published NEC or do we have access to the considerations before anything is accepted?
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

George, that is my understanding. You also have to understand that the whole idea could be scrapped as well. :D
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

Sam, it is not the Usability Task Force but is a special task force that is set up to look at this one item.

The deadline for proposals for the 2008 NEC is on November 4th, 2005 @ 5:00 PM EST.

In January 2006, the panels will look at the proposals and take action on each one of them.

A ROP will be published and is available to anyone who wants one. Anyone may make a comment on any of the panel actions.

In December of 2006, the panels will look at the comments and take action on each one of them.

A ROC will be published and is available to anyone who wants one.

In May of 2007 at the NFPA Annual Meeting, the floor will take action on the 2008 NEC. :D
 
Re: The term "Isolated Ground" should go

That's pretty cool that there's a special commity assembled to handle this.

I keep wondering what it must take to get a document wide change like this implimented.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top