Thermal Expansion or Vandalism

[ramsy]

Anybody see PVC bell box do this before?

Vandalism seems unlikely, since the light was not even scratched, about 15ft above parked cars.

If vandalism, only a chisel or bullet could do this without damaging the light.

 

[LarryFine]

It looks accidental to me. I'd suggest matching the plate and box materials.

 

[letgomywago]

To me I'd say looks like temperature shock

 

[AC\DC]

Agreed, does not look like vandalism

 

[ramsy]

It looks accidental to me. I'd suggest matching the plate and box materials.

Roger that, also easier to bond light to raceway missing EGC, using metallic box.

 

[ramsy]

Agreed, does not look like vandalism

Any idea how to make this 2nd trip billable, rather than a warranty call, if old PVC box should have been replaced the first time?

 

[AC\DC]

You had no way of knowing how the condition of the box was. If you put a new box and this happened I would eat the return trip. Since you did not change It, I would tell owner a new box is needed and charge them. You were trying to save them a few bucks on first visit, box seemed fine, not your fault. If they don’t understand then there going to be a pain in the ass down the road.

Though was that not complaint to use the pvc in the first place, since it seems that the egc is the raceway. Unless you bonded that light the first time, somehow I am not seeing in your pics. I would probably put a metal box even though I hate them so it’s now compliant. If I went this route I would eat the cost since I should of changed in the first place.


I would have to look in book, I know there’s allowances if no egc is present, but your pipes your egc.

 

[synchro]

It looks like the fractures may have begun at the ends of the screws driven into the mounting bosses of the injection molded box. If the threaded holes could accommodate it, perhaps with longer screws it would've held up better.

Roger that, also easier to bond light to raceway missing EGC, using metallic box.

Agree with that, and a metal box should be stronger than a plastic one.

Also, the Taymac box shown above has the following directive on it in raised letters:
"FOR USE WITH NON-METALLIC WIRING SYSTEMS ONLY"
https://hubbellcdn.com/salesdrawings/PRB57550.pdf

 

[ptonsparky]

Fixture screwed too tight when it was mounted to the box. Sell them a new box but you may need to eat the call and if you're eating that, it may be good to eat that too.

 

[LarryFine]

I see no reason to eat doing a repair that you didn't cause.

 

[ptonsparky]

I see no reason to eat doing a repair that you didn't cause.

I agree, if he didn't install it.

 

[texie]

Judging by the OP photos this looks like a non compliant install as it appears that this is a nonmetallic box connected to an EMT raceway. One has to wonder what the EGC from the fixture was connected to. It appears that the fixture is electrically floating as a result. A real safety hazard.

 

[LarryFine]

Any idea how to make this 2nd trip billable, rather than a warranty call, if old PVC box should have been replaced the first time?

By whom? What were you called to do, what did you do, and what does the customer think you did wrong?

 

[AC\DC]

By whom? What were you called to do, what did you do, and what does the customer think you did wrong?

From op he put the light in, box was existing. He has two ways
1-Charge customer cause it’s not his fault it broke.
2-Eat the cost cause a pvc with no egc is a violation and should of been swapped when he installed the light.

 

[ramsy]

From op he put the light in, box was existing. He has two ways
1-Charge customer cause it’s not his fault it broke.
2-Eat the cost cause a pvc with no egc is a violation and should of been swapped when he installed the light.

Everyone's understanding is correct, without knowing this job was T&M, & my box screws were 8-32's.

Owner got 3 photos immediately w/ message "Vandalism Repaired", but my itemized 12-line invoice arrives later.

"Vandalism" won't be on invoice if "Undetermined" is more accurate, and limits complaints to contract / billing method.

Later realized T&M billing makes price the same regardless when box was replaced, and missing material may be corrected on future trips.

In this case box broke day after replacing light, before next trip could correct temporary-bonding method.

 

[ramsy]

It looks like the fractures may have begun at the ends of the screws driven into the mounting bosses of the injection molded box. If the threaded holes could accommodate it, perhaps with longer screws it would've held up better.

Yes screws could damage PVC box, but existing 8-32's were ~3/4" long and re-used.

..a metal box should be stronger than a plastic one.

1st photo shows pieces of PVC box attached to fixture mount screws. Notice hole in PVC matching .22 caliber bullet entry near top-mount screw.

Also, the Taymac box shown above has the following directive on it in raised letters:
"FOR USE WITH NON-METALLIC WIRING SYSTEMS ONLY"
https://hubbellcdn.com/salesdrawings/PRB57550.pdf

Excellent observation, and good fodder against original-raceway installer.

 

[ptonsparky]

Nope, don't see a hole matching a .22.

 

[ptonsparky]

I wonder where the green wire to the fixture was landed.

 

[Fred B]

Seen that damage before. Usually a contact that causes a structural shock to the fixture for it to break off both fastening points. A variety of causes potentially all related to accidental or intentional contact. (i.e.: Basketball, Ladder set up, tree limb falling, ice sliding off roof, etc.) All can potentially damage the box, especially an older one exposed to weather, without any apparent damage to the lighting fixture. Older exposed plastic box would be the weak point compared to new fixture.

Good luck getting admission of any of the above from the HO, but extremely unlikely that it be any sort of installation error short of as someone already mentioned (it "should have" replaced the old box when the new lamp was installed). I would look for surrounding conditions, new siding been installed, new holiday lights, a basketball hoop, gutters new or recently cleaned, etc., to verify even if only to myself possible cause of damage.

Public area? Vandalism more possible, (I bet you can't jump and hit that light). Look for shoe skid marks on the walls.

 

[ramsy]

Nope, don't see a hole matching a .22.

Thank you for anticipating complaints, if that idea is attempted.

See post #1, first photo IMG_0361.jpeg.

See light-grey PVC broken off at each screw mount on dark-brown fixture base.

Zoom in at top of image time stamp, 14:38 • November 25, 2023

Look below the B in upside-down November time stamp.

Notice PVC following outside edge of box, where both screws are still attached.

Was that ~.22 caliber hole at top screw stopped before penetrating into the box?