This is a great one

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M. D. said:
I don't understand why the box could not be mounted?? There may not be a desire to , but it certainly can be. It would fail in the area I work as well.
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This is the same as having a box hanging out that will later be installed in the finish brick on the exterior of a house. Usually the rough inspection takes place before the brick is installed. We leave the cable with the box attached hanging and the brickey installs it with the brick.
 
if there was no way to mount that box at the rough, you would have to show me at or before the final how the box is attached & grounded. it would be the contractors responsibilty, if a fan got installed prior to me seeing the box attachment & grounding the job fails.
 
mpd said:
if there was no way to mount that box at the rough, you would have to show me at or before the final how the box is attached & grounded. it would be the contractors responsibilty, if a fan got installed prior to me seeing the box attachment & grounding the job fails.
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Unless there were some extenuating circumstances, I'd put my trust that the electrician confirmed that the box were installed correctly. They are supposed to be experienced licensed professionals who take responsibility for their work. I won't look over their shoulder for every little detail.

John
 
bikeindy said:
dnem said:
When contractors only put an inch into the box and leave a loop to pull in later, we tell them the slice open the one inch end of the sheath and bend the very end of the ground around the bonding screw. When the light installor gets there, he won't be able to completely ignore or forget the ground because he'll have to disconnect it to pull more thru. The light installor takes on responsibility for rebonding the box when he disconnects to pull more slack. If he doesn't have to disconnect, it's easier to ignore the ground wire and not see the box bonding as his problem.
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In Carmel IN there is only one permit for the entire job. the contractor calls for the inspection and it is his responcibility to be there for the Inspector. and this contractor is 99% of the time. If your going to write something up put a reference on it. when the contractor called me I had no clue what he was talking about because the inspector didn't clarify what he was failing. Do you really think making a guy do something twice makes it safer? your joking right? he takes responciblity when he shows up for work to do things right and bonding at finish is as right as bonding at rough. this circuit is not even energized.
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"Do you really think making a guy do something twice makes it safer? your joking right?"

Twice doesn't make it safer. But it does allow for an inspection and also a reminder to the fixture installor. I was only advocating a temporary bonding connection so that you could continue using your one inch in the box and a loop out method.

That method is a good solution to the rotozip on the rampage problem. You should stick with it. But you're going to have to give the inspector something to inspect before it all gets covered by fixtures before the final.

Don't you agree that it's harder for the fixture installor to forget the grounding wire if he's disconnecting it before he pulls the slack out of the loop ?

I think the temp bond is a good solution.

At the point the fixture is installed, the temp bond of the ground wire is disconnected, slack pulled thru, sheath cut, and the ground wire reconnected.

David
 
infinity said:
This is the same as having a box hanging out that will later be installed in the finish brick on the exterior of a house. Usually the rough inspection takes place before the brick is installed. We leave the cable with the box attached hanging and the brickey installs it with the brick.
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I would agree that seeing the mounting on every single box isn't critical unless it's a fan or weight rated box. But if it's fan or weight rated then I'd want to see it installed on the rough or get a call from the contractor telling me how it was going to be installed.

David
 
I do not see what the issue should be with the "fixture" installer forgetting to install the equipment grounding conductor.:confused:

The wiring part of the installation of a fixture at the finish portion of a job is not difficult at all.
1. Connect the EGC
2. Connect the Grounded conductor
3. Connect the "hot", "energized", "switchleg" conductor

25 years in the field, and I always thought it was easier to make the splices at the roughing stage of the job, for all terminations.
Yes, there were times due to construction when a box was not installed...left a tail.
 
sorry......I do work for the City of Carmel (contract)..............I just use Indy as a geographical reference.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
I do not see what the issue should be with the "fixture" installer forgetting to install the equipment grounding conductor.:confused:

The wiring part of the installation of a fixture at the finish portion of a job is not difficult at all.
1. Connect the EGC
2. Connect the Grounded conductor
3. Connect the "hot", "energized", "switchleg" conductor

25 years in the field, and I always thought it was easier to make the splices at the roughing stage of the job, for all terminations.
Yes, there were times due to construction when a box was not installed...left a tail.
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"1. Connect the EGC"
OK but it has to be connected to both fixture and box.

But having said that .....
If the connection to the box is missed, it's not as dangerous as missing the connection to the fixture. And the fixture bond is the one that can't be seen on the rough.

I guess if the inspector knows that the box is bonded then, at the very least, there probably will be grounding continuity to the fixture thru the fixture attachment screws. Gravity will be your friend and increase the chances of having continuity.

The only way for the inspector to be sure is to drop fixtures.

Now that this has ping ponged around my brain for awhile, I think I'm going to start dropping fixture canopies randomly on finals on the days that the work load isn't so heavy.

David
 
After the rough inspection, but some blank metal octagon covers on stuff...with a 8-32 TORX head. That will cure the zip saw issues ;->
 
Not only do we make up grounds for rough inspection, the panel grounds and neutrals must also be landed, as well as all of the system grounds. Not only do I not mind it, I prefer it. The more done at rough, the less there is to do at trim.

In addition, I also make every connection and pigtail I can during rough. I make up the device pigtails if needed, as well as strip and hook the conductors. The only tool necessary for trim is a screwdriver; the walls stay cleaner, too.

If there is roto-damage, I charge the GC (or whoever we contract with) and let them absorb it or try to collect it from the drywallers, so we don't have to chase them down. When he gets tired of this, the damage will stop.

For insulation-only damage, I often strip off the damaged section and slide a piece of insulation from a scrap over the exposed copper. This also works well for crumbling insulation in old work.
 
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