This panel...
- Thread starter websparky
- Start date
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paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: This panel...
Originally posted by LarryFine:
I like the black tape on the black wire.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: This panel...
The only thing different in MA is the prohibition against NM above commercial suspended ceilings.
Up until 2002 the NEC allowed NM above commercial suspended ceilings. I heard the NEC rule that now prohibits it went in as a trade off with the Steel tube people for allowing NM above 3 floors.
In other words the rule was not changed for safety reasons, MA said the heck with that we will keep doing what has worked fine for years.
The NEC still allows us to install RNC above commercial suspended ceilings so it is not a fuel load issue.
Now if you say that above the ceiling in your picture is "Other Space Used for Environmental Air" that is a different story and I could not run NM in it that space here in MA or NEC states.
Neither is the NEC if above the ceiling is not Other Space Used for Environmental Air.
The only thing different in MA is the prohibition against NM above commercial suspended ceilings.
Up until 2002 the NEC allowed NM above commercial suspended ceilings. I heard the NEC rule that now prohibits it went in as a trade off with the Steel tube people for allowing NM above 3 floors.
In other words the rule was not changed for safety reasons, MA said the heck with that we will keep doing what has worked fine for years.
The NEC still allows us to install RNC above commercial suspended ceilings so it is not a fuel load issue.
Now if you say that above the ceiling in your picture is "Other Space Used for Environmental Air" that is a different story and I could not run NM in it that space here in MA or NEC states.
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: This panel...
Scott,
The three violations are:
1. Single phase SE cable colored black, black and grey with a bare grounded conductor and a separate grounding conductor.
2. Doubled white wires under one screw.
3. A white wire under a breaker screw.
Bob,
You are correct about the older codes and NM.
However, in this case, 300.22(C)(1) does apply to the NM above the ceiling because the space is also used for return air to the HVAC system, so you are correct again.
Scott,
The three violations are:
1. Single phase SE cable colored black, black and grey with a bare grounded conductor and a separate grounding conductor.
2. Doubled white wires under one screw.
3. A white wire under a breaker screw.
Bob,
You are correct about the older codes and NM.
However, in this case, 300.22(C)(1) does apply to the NM above the ceiling because the space is also used for return air to the HVAC system, so you are correct again.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: This panel...
All things considered, this panel is pretty neat, and not a bad job at all. What's the problem?
All things considered, this panel is pretty neat, and not a bad job at all. What's the problem?
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: This panel...
Of course, there are problems with the feeder cable, but otherwise the panel is made up pretty nicely.
As far as romex used in a commercial buildings and above suspended ceilings, it's a non-issue. It's not unsafe. I don't buy the smoke load argument. I would be far more concerned with the building furnishings burning than the wire and cable above a ceiling. :roll:
Of course, there are problems with the feeder cable, but otherwise the panel is made up pretty nicely.
As far as romex used in a commercial buildings and above suspended ceilings, it's a non-issue. It's not unsafe. I don't buy the smoke load argument. I would be far more concerned with the building furnishings burning than the wire and cable above a ceiling. :roll:
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: This panel...
Cool, that was not evident from the photo.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: This panel...
"Jim, this looks like a pretty neat installation to me. Let's see some pics of your work. Wouldn't it be a waste of time and therfore money to do anything neater than this? That's what I have heard. "
Maybe i was bit rough on him.Will bump it up
to 2 1/2.Anyone who can call this neat needs to stay out of panels
"Jim, this looks like a pretty neat installation to me. Let's see some pics of your work. Wouldn't it be a waste of time and therfore money to do anything neater than this? That's what I have heard. "
Maybe i was bit rough on him.Will bump it up
to 2 1/2.Anyone who can call this neat needs to stay out of panels
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: This panel...
So let's see the pictures Jim.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: This panel...
I'll show you guys. I'll take the camera to work.
Then tonight, when I post the pictures, I'm going to stick my head out the door to hear the collective gasp across the nation.
I'll show you guys. I'll take the camera to work.
Then tonight, when I post the pictures, I'm going to stick my head out the door to hear the collective gasp across the nation.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: This panel...
Just want to keep this one right at the top for you Jim. Easy to find to post your pictures.
Just want to keep this one right at the top for you Jim. Easy to find to post your pictures.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: This panel...
OK did i miss something "Don't the wires need derated since there is more than 9 conductors in a piece of PVC 74" long??" Where did the 74 inches show up in that picture ? I see less than 1 foot.
[ November 08, 2005, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
OK did i miss something "Don't the wires need derated since there is more than 9 conductors in a piece of PVC 74" long??" Where did the 74 inches show up in that picture ? I see less than 1 foot.
[ November 08, 2005, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: This panel...
My company issued cell phone has no cam or i would gladly show my signed panel at the only house i did in over a year.Yes it looked great. And that house passed rough and final first time,thanks to Allens thumbs up on what he would be looking for.Also hot check only came up with one problem,an 8 foot flo bulb that was defective.
My company issued cell phone has no cam or i would gladly show my signed panel at the only house i did in over a year.Yes it looked great.
And that house passed rough and final first time,thanks to Allens thumbs up on what he would be looking for.Also hot check only came up with one problem,an 8 foot flo bulb that was defective.allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: This panel...
Well thank you Jim,It`s just that working in this area for along time i know what the AHJ wants and looks for.Glad it went well.I haven`t stuck my hands in a panel in over 2 years since promotion.But I`ll look for the 800 a ct I did in a home and the panels.Neat as a pin,nothing like what was shown in this thread.Maybe I am anal but I would have had it ripped out and redone the right way.But that`s just the way I am anal
Well thank you Jim,It`s just that working in this area for along time i know what the AHJ wants and looks for.Glad it went well.I haven`t stuck my hands in a panel in over 2 years since promotion.But I`ll look for the 800 a ct I did in a home and the panels.Neat as a pin,nothing like what was shown in this thread.Maybe I am anal but I would have had it ripped out and redone the right way.But that`s just the way I am anal
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