This probably should be a poll...

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1793

1793

Senior Member
Location
Louisville, Kentucky
Occupation
Inspector
Situation:
Kitchen >> fluorescent fixture over Island wired from the end of the fixture. 14/2 romex stripped about 20" for connection in the fluorescent.

Customer >> removed fluorescent and wants to install a chandelier over the Island.

Problem >> There was no box for the original install. The 14/2 romex is long enough to reach to a box to be installed about 15" away.

Question >> Since the 14/2 has been stripped; What would you do.

I have thought about cutting some 14/2 and sliding the outer jacket off and sleeving the existing 14/2 to the box I will add.

This is a two story with finished room above the Kitchen.
 
1793 said:
Situation:
Kitchen >> fluorescent fixture over Island wired from the end of the fixture. 14/2 romex stripped about 20" for connection in the fluorescent.

Customer >> removed fluorescent and wants to install a chandelier over the Island.

Problem >> There was no box for the original install. The 14/2 romex is long enough to reach to a box to be installed about 15" away.

Question >> Since the 14/2 has been stripped; What would you do.

I have thought about cutting some 14/2 and sliding the outer jacket off and sleeving the existing 14/2 to the box I will add.

This is a two story with finished room above the Kitchen.
Click to expand...

You cant fix it by adding sleeve.I suggest a plastic j box with plastic cover.After you leave if they cover it up its not your problem.While many will say never cover it ,you have no other options.
 
How was the 14/2 run to the old fixture? In conduit? Just laid above the ceiling joists? Was a hole just cut into the ceiling to pass the wires to the old fixture?

I am wondering if you need to do anything at all. The insulation system of each of the wires in the 14/2 is rated for 600 volts, with or without the outer sleeve. Your suggested method of giving the conductors additional protection is no more of a ?UL Listed or Approved? method than just leaving the single conductors without a sleeve. It is too early here, and I haven?t finished my coffee, so I don?t have the energy to look this one up. But I know there are times when single conductors can be used to serve a load, so long as they are routed together.
 
charlie b said:
... Was a hole just cut into the ceiling to pass the wires to the old fixture?
Click to expand...

Yes.

I am wondering if you need to do anything at all. The insulation system of each of the wires in the 14/2 is rated for 600 volts, with or without the outer sleeve.Your suggested method of giving the conductors additional protection is no more of a ?UL Listed or Approved? method than just leaving the single conductors without a sleeve. It is too early here, and I haven?t finished my coffee, so I don?t have the energy to look this one up. But I know there are times when single conductors can be used to serve a load, so long as they are routed together.
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I was thinking it could not hurt. This will be in the drywall ceiling.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
How about this idea.Do a change over to emt and not cut the wires.
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I don't have to cut any existing wire. The existing wire is long enough to reach to the new location. Just the outer covering has been skinned back.
 
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You mentioned "Chandelier", so don't forget 314.27.

Is this the kind of chandelier that's suspend by chain? There are creative (and decorative :) ) ways to relocate a chandelier from where the chandelier is powered to where it needs to be suspended.
 
I would slide NM sheathing onto the conductors, and tape the sheathing pieces together. This way you will have the required 1/4" of sheathing entering the new box (314.17(C)).
 
georgestolz said:
I would slide NM sheathing onto the conductors, and tape the sheathing pieces together. This way you will have the required 1/4" of sheathing entering the new box (314.17(C)).
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Thats what I was proposing.:)
 
I just wired a whole house in some old TW I found laying around. I made my own cable by using plastic tape.

YOU GUYS ARE NUTS!!!!
 
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I would try and steer the HO into a couple of attractive trimmed cans and not a hanging lite above an island. Assuming the joist layout would allow it.

But otherwise just sleeve the NM with some carlon blue and add a male adaptor with locknut.

A chandelier above an island? Nah. Not a professional job. We could go New York retro with track, that would make more sense to me. 2 cents.
 
Mike03a3 said:
Care to share a few?
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Certainly!

#1 --

From the current box, hang the fixture as though you were actually going to leave it there. Overrate the load on the box you're starting off with 100% for impact load in the event, G-d forbid, that the second point fails.

Over the location the customer wants, install a decorative metal hook with sufficient strength to carry the entire load.

Gather up a length of chain, enough to make a nice pretty loop, and pass the hook through the link of chain at that point.

If you do it right it can look cute. If you do it wrong, well, it can look pretty awful.

#2:

From the current box, create an opening equidistant from the desired location and colinear with the island. In that opening, install a box rated for twice the weight of the fixture. Close the box with the (matching) hardware, but without any wiring coming out. From the current box, install a matching j-box, decorative hardware, etc. Again, box needs to be able to handle twice the actual load. The appropriate decorative lamp cord comes from this box and is threaded down with the chain, etc. as usual. Make two equal lengths of chain, each having a drop equal to 1 1/2 times the distance from the desired location. This should create a roughly 90 degree angle. Chain needs to be rated for 1 1/2 times the load (see trig, assuming my shirt-sleaves calculations are right), as does the ring or link used to join this mess. From that point, add a length of chain long enough for the final drop. Thread wires, etc.

#3:

Not what anyone asked for, but probably more practical. In the current box, install a recessed spot, aimed at the center of the island. Select a bulb with the appropriate spread to focus as much light as possible on the island surface. Install chandelier over island as desired.

My recollection of code is that this is okay -- the fixture doesn't have to be suspended from the same point as where wiring originates.

Anyone care to tell me what I've done wrong?

Personally, this is a bad idea and the HO needs to be told it will make the island more difficult to work on.
 
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1793 said:
Question >> Since the 14/2 has been stripped; What would you do.
Click to expand...

I keep a roll of self-fusing electrical tape in my tool bucket to repair damaged NM sheathing.

Sometimes I even remember to use it. :)
 
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