This total power to site does not add up.......

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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Sorry. I should have stated up front that the customer's expected average load will be, by my calculations, around 450 kVA. He is desiring to expand his operation from where he is at currently which is measured at circa 250 kVA. His fear is that the entire service will fail once he brings the extra 200kVA on line.
As already mentioned, you need to inform the POCO about the expected load change. They generally could care less what you have for overcurrent protection.

I have a school building I am upgrading service to. Existing was 2000 amps single phase for a main. Transformer supplying it - 100kVA. Load history showed it seldom went much higher then 80 kVA. - that is only about 333 amps.

I am upgrading to 208/120 system and 1200 amp main - adding mostly HVAC loads, replacing some existing HVAC though so load calculation is a little complex. But I figured at least 400 amp main is probably enough to handle the HVAC load and 600 amp main probably guarantees a little assurance that we safely handle the total load - but I am putting in 1200 amp anyway because it is relatively easy for POCO to swap the transformer compared to me replacing 600 amp gear with 800 or 1200 down the road should more load be added, and really isn't going to cost much more then a 600 amp supply in this case. BTW 600 amp is about 432 kVA - POCO is going to provide a 225kVA transformer - still well short of if that 1200 amp main were fully loaded. POCO charges to provide the 225 is also less then it is to provide.

In some cases if you demand to have larger supply but don't use it's capacity - it will cost you more in demand charges then if you subscribe to a lesser service. This usually applies to larger power users - often you need to have a demand of over 100-200 kVA before those charges kick in. If you have a high demand service the POCO needs to be able to supply that demand, that usually comes with higher monthly minimum charges, but possibly a lower overall rate per kW. If you don't use the high kW though you usually end up in a situation where you would have spent less on a lower usage agreement - but would have lower rated supply transformer and demand penalties if you do have periods of high usage.
 

Sahib

Senior Member
Location
India
One problem is the coordination between the OCPD, if any, provided on POCO side and OCPD provided on the OP side. As the POCO side OCPD would be smaller size, it is likely to blow first on OP side fault causing poor coordination.
 

topgone

Senior Member
One problem is the coordination between the OCPD, if any, provided on POCO side and OCPD provided on the OP side. As the POCO side OCPD would be smaller size, it is likely to blow first on OP side fault causing poor coordination.

Most distribution transformers are protected at the primary by fuses. I doubt those fuses are gonna blow if all connections to the PoCo lines passed through its engineering! Been there.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
That would explain why so many pole pigs here in PEPCO land have most of their paint burnt off of them.....
And the newer ones seem to be upsized.

No, the NEC service calculations are high. An NEC calculuted load of say 140 amps would usually result in a service with a 200 amp main breaker but an actual load that will never exceed 70 amps.
 

Open Neutral

Senior Member
Location
Inside the Beltway
Occupation
Engineer
No, the NEC service calculations are high.

Do we have a [sarcasm] tag available in BBCODE?

There are multiple pole pigs around that are quite scorched, for whatever reason. The one that baffled me most was a small 3ph triad that feeds a dentist's office, period. My guess was the X-ray required it as the HVAC units did not look that large. One day I noticed that they'd lost their paint job.....
 

topgone

Senior Member
Do we have a [sarcasm] tag available in BBCODE?

There are multiple pole pigs around that are quite scorched, for whatever reason. The one that baffled me most was a small 3ph triad that feeds a dentist's office, period. My guess was the X-ray required it as the HVAC units did not look that large. One day I noticed that they'd lost their paint job.....
The useful life of transformers are included in the calculations. By the time those pole-mounted pigs get roasted, they should have provided ample profits for the PoCo!:)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Do we have a [sarcasm] tag available in BBCODE?

There are multiple pole pigs around that are quite scorched, for whatever reason. The one that baffled me most was a small 3ph triad that feeds a dentist's office, period. My guess was the X-ray required it as the HVAC units did not look that large. One day I noticed that they'd lost their paint job.....
Could just be they don't use the best paint available and it doesn't withstand sunlight very well?

The X-ray may be a high current, but is only for a few milliseconds at at time when the highest current flows.

The outer shell of the can is where all heat produced within has to be dissipated if there is no cooling fins.
Surface temps should be higher near the top then near the bottom convection of heated oil within will bring the higher temp to the top.
 

Open Neutral

Senior Member
Location
Inside the Beltway
Occupation
Engineer
All I know is one day when I looked at it, all 3 were toasted.
I was trying to decide if a lightning hit could have caused it, but my residence is fed from that primary, and it had suffered no embarrassment.
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
All I know is one day when I looked at it, all 3 were toasted.
I was trying to decide if a lightning hit could have caused it, but my residence is fed from that primary, and it had suffered no embarrassment.
All I know is what everyone else is saying is true. NEC load calcs are ultra conservative. Discoloured paint or trying to make sense of what failed and what didn't after a lightning strike ain't changing that.
 
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