Thoughts on an issue

[captainwireman]

Honestly, I appreciate all the advice I can get. I went through my apprenticeship and only did construction installations. No service work, no maintenance. I didn't think about the insurance issue on the modification of the panel, I just figured the tab needed to be cleaned to get the new breaker on. I guess my biggest problem here(which coincides with my limited experience) is that I don't have any other electricians to work with, just myself. No one else to learn from. Of course, if you can't learn from others mistakes you tend to learn from your own. That's the reason I joined this forum. I'll be relocating in a few months and hopefully I can catch a gig doing service work or maintenance, that way I can get some proper experience on fixing electrical systems. I can run pipe, make up panels, build MCC's, etc...but none of that has to do with fixing stuff. So again, I appreciate all the advice I can get, just so long as it's devoid of condescension. As an apprentice I had my fair share of jerk journeymen who knew half as much as they pretended and spent more time berating than teaching.

Good job. Keep it up and keep asking. This forum has a policy of not berating. I have learned things here that I am certain no one up the chain of command knew, but certainly put on the show of knowing. I would suggest asking first, then you have the knowledge to play the phony big talkers and find out who you can rely on.

 

[lapseofmind]

Good job. Keep it up and keep asking. This forum has a policy of not berating. I have learned things here that I am certain no one up the chain of command knew, but certainly put on the show of knowing. I would suggest asking first, then you have the knowledge to play the phony big talkers and find out who you can rely on.

Thank you, I appreciate it. I've always had a habit of asking questions. I do realize now, after reading some responses on various threads, on both this forum and another I recently joined, that there are some people who seem annoyed by certain questions. As if the person asking is just less of an electrician. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me, considering, there is always some better.

 

[John120/240]

Thank you, I appreciate it. I've always had a habit of asking questions. I do realize now, after reading some responses on various threads, on both this forum and another I recently joined, that there are some people who seem annoyed by certain questions. As if the person asking is just less of an electrician. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me, considering, there is always some better.

Often time the person giving the response is just being cautious. Being an Internet Forum very few of us know one another or their qualifications. It's nothing personal but reading some post (not you lapseofmind) you get the idea that somebody is in over their head. Nobody wants to encourage a novice to do something that could result in personal injury or property damage.

 

[lapseofmind]

I understand being cautious, in this trade it's a very smart way to be. Maybe I took a response a little too personal(on the other forum). Either way though, I appreciate all the help.

I'll be transitioning soon, out of what I am doing and hopefully into either service work, maintenance or control work. I want to do something that challenges me and helps me to learn and excel. I'm getting really tired of building MCC panels...

 

[kwired]

I don't think it was a loose connection. To be perfectly honest I don't. I talked to guy again today and got all the details.

Check it: The arcing on the A phase of the 2 pole breaker happened only once and it was at the same time the burn marks appeared on the line coming in and the lights in his kitchen started flickering. At this time the hot tub was running. He killed the breaker.

After advice, he turned off the hot tub breaker. The kitchen is fed from the sub panel that the hot tub panel is fed from.

Now, the filing issue: He complained he couldn't install the new breaker because there was build up on A phase tab. That's why I said file it, get the burn build up off so he could install it. He expressed his lack of money when I initially advised him to get a new panel installed.

He hasn't had any problems since disconnecting the panel that fed the hot tub and installing the new breaker. That's all the information I've gathered from this guy so far. I'll keep tabs on what's going and continue to advise him on installing a new panel.


I'm thinking overload because of some component in the hot tub AND a faulty breaker. Now, I'll reiterate, I've only been doing electrical work for 6 years and the majority has been installing electrical systems in new and remodel construction, so obviously my knowledge and experience is far less than most people.

This "arcing" did not only happen once. If that connection, whether it be bus to breaker, conductor to lug, or whatever has been heated up, it is because of poor connection issues for any reason (that may not always be easy to determine though). A poor connection does not have to cause a noticeable arc, it does have resistance though and resistance in a circuit means there will be heat. The more heat the poorer the connection eventually becomes - making even more heat. Chances are if you happen to catch it at the right time the thing is glowing red hot, but usually it has failed to either obvious arcing or open circuit before symptoms are apparent to user.

Once a connection like that has been overheated like that nothing you do besides replacement of everything that was overheated is going to solve the problem. Sure you may file the bus and plug in a new breaker and it works, but that bus is compromised and will eventually fail again. Same is true the other way around - plug a breaker that has been compromised onto a new bus - it will eventually fail again. Once those metals have lost their temper to the heating they are never the same again, always replace anything that has been subjected to this kind of heating - and make sure to replace everything involved not just what looks bad.

 

[lapseofmind]

Well, luckily he decided to follow my advice on getting a new setup. I guess his panel is pretty old to begin with and after pricing it out he's going to invest in a new one. I'd hate to see the guys house burn down or someone get hurt because he didn't want to spend the money.

I appreciate all the help everyone, I'm sure in the future I'll be asking more and more questions :lol: