Thoughts on permitted/not permitted

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Sparky2791

Sparky2791

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Northeast, PA
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Electrical Design
Opened a hinged 3R box for a site lighting project and found this (see attached) inside where the existing circuits land. It was in a locked box only accessible to authorized personnel. Not sure how, or even if it did, pass electrical inspection because I am thinking this is not permitted.
They wired to a main breaker through a contactor to control the small load center (which is for site lighting) the other wiring is up to the photocell
Thoughts on Code violations?

Thanks for looking!
 

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I couldn't open your attachments. However, just because a job is inspected, it doesn't mean it is a kosher installation. The same as a licensed contractor means you are registered with the State as a contractor and they are collecting your yearly fee, at least here in Commufonia is that way.
 
Done quite frequently for shopping center exterior lighting.
Also done in manufactured gear for energy management. Big orange and big blue uses a contactor to turn off and on transformers and panelboards. Didn’t look that close for any wiring violations. Usually with the manufactured versions they have a dead front on the breakers though.
 
jaggedben said:
What exactly do you think is a code violation?
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Open the hinged cover to the 3R enclosure and you have exposed wiring & terminal lugs. When simply operating a breaker you can accidentally touch live electrical parts. I realize it is accessible to authorized personnel only but still....
 
Ponchik said:
I couldn't open your attachments. However, just because a job is inspected, it doesn't mean it is a kosher installation. The same as a licensed contractor means you are registered with the State as a contractor and they are collecting your yearly fee, at least here in Commufonia is that way.
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Here in PA the inspectors have more 'responsibility' in ensuring it is a safe, code compliant installation. Which quite frankly is the way it should be everywhere. What's the point in having an inspection if it is just a pay me first and Ill give you the rubber stamp of approval.
 
hillbilly1 said:
Done quite frequently for shopping center exterior lighting.
Also done in manufactured gear for energy management. Big orange and big blue uses a contactor to turn off and on transformers and panelboards. Didn’t look that close for any wiring violations. Usually with the manufactured versions they have a dead front on the breakers though.
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Yes- I see this design as a manufactured system by lighting controls manufacturers minus the main circuit breaker. That design is all enclosed in its own panelboard enclosure.
 
LibertyEngineering said:
Open the hinged cover to the 3R enclosure and you have exposed wiring & terminal lugs. When simply operating a breaker you can accidentally touch live electrical parts. I realize it is accessible to authorized personnel only but still....
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Yeah, what code section does that violate?

I don't see anything in 110.27 that explicitly prohibits this.
 
Would this fall under Article 409, industrial control panels? I don't see anything in that Article that would prohibit such an installation. Seems like a pretty typical panel with exposed live parts.
 
With the collection of breakers being used, does the assembly now count as a panelboard? 408.38 would require it to be dead-front, unless the exception applies.

Also, that one part has the reverse RU marking on it, does that mean it can't be field installed, and can only be used by a manufacturer or panel shop? That part also has two wires under one terminal.

Cheers, Wayne
 
NEMA 3R, hinged cover, live parts inside. Violation?

www.se.com

DU222RB - Safety switch, general duty, non fusible, 60A, 2 pole, 10hp, 240VAC, NEMA 3R, bolt on provision | Schneider Electric USA

Schneider Electric USA. DU222RB - Safety switch, general duty, non fusible, 60A, 2 pole, 10hp, 240VAC, NEMA 3R, bolt on provision.
www.se.com www.se.com

Some people were so bothered by seeing this type of disconnect in solar installations that they added a (discriminatory) section in 690.15 requiring such disconnects to be locked or require a tool to open. I won't argue with the sensibility of it, but if such language were added to 110.27 (where it belongs, if they want to have it) then your locked enclosure would comply.
 
wwhitney said:
With the collection of breakers being used, does the assembly now count as a panelboard?
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No.

wwhitney said:
408.38 would require it to be dead-front, unless the exception applies.
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The exception would apply.

wwhitney said:
Also, that one part has the reverse RU marking on it, does that mean it can't be field installed, and can only be used by a manufacturer or panel shop?
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I will find the thread on this.
wwhitney said:
That part also has two wires under one terminal.
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That's the only thing about this that bothers me.
 
LibertyEngineering said:
Open the hinged cover to the 3R enclosure and you have exposed wiring & terminal lugs. When simply operating a breaker you can accidentally touch live electrical parts. I realize it is accessible to authorized personnel only but still....
Click to expand...
It’s no different than a fused disconnect, an override allows door to be opened with power on
 
Looks like an auxiliary rod may be installed. I see a single bare conductor running into the panle.
I would open the panle and take a look to be sure it's in the ground bar.
I would also check to see if an EGC is ran with the feeder.
 
tom baker said:
It’s no different than a fused disconnect, an override allows door to be opened with power on
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Except when you open a fused disconnect via the override there is not a Square D load center with 30A-2P breakers inside of it right next to the exposed live parts such as in this case. At least the door to the load center opens in the opposite direction of them. I am actually replacing all of this anyway because the service now needs 24/7 power from the load center which, in the current arrangement, it dose not have. A photocell controls the contactor that feeds the panel for dusk/dawn operation. I was mostly interested in others thoughts on this. NFPA 70E apply at all here?
 
LibertyEngineering said:
This was the point of my post. I wanted to determine if any existed so you basically just asked the same question I did.
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Ok, my responses so far may have been a bit rhetorical. Let me be more straightforward.

AFAIK this sort of thing isn't explicitly prohibited by code. It is a little crude, and arguably not best practice. But it's not clearly against code.
 
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