Thoughts on permitted/not permitted

[Sparky2791]

Opened a hinged 3R box for a site lighting project and found this (see attached) inside where the existing circuits land. It was in a locked box only accessible to authorized personnel. Not sure how, or even if it did, pass electrical inspection because I am thinking this is not permitted.
They wired to a main breaker through a contactor to control the small load center (which is for site lighting) the other wiring is up to the photocell
Thoughts on Code violations?

Thanks for looking!

 

[Ponchik]

I couldn't open your attachments. However, just because a job is inspected, it doesn't mean it is a kosher installation. The same as a licensed contractor means you are registered with the State as a contractor and they are collecting your yearly fee, at least here in Commufonia is that way.

 

[hillbilly1]

Done quite frequently for shopping center exterior lighting.
Also done in manufactured gear for energy management. Big orange and big blue uses a contactor to turn off and on transformers and panelboards. Didn’t look that close for any wiring violations. Usually with the manufactured versions they have a dead front on the breakers though.

 

[ptonsparky]

Pretty crude.

 

[jaggedben]

What exactly do you think is a code violation?

 

[Sparky2791]

What exactly do you think is a code violation?

Open the hinged cover to the 3R enclosure and you have exposed wiring & terminal lugs. When simply operating a breaker you can accidentally touch live electrical parts. I realize it is accessible to authorized personnel only but still....

 

[Sparky2791]

I couldn't open your attachments. However, just because a job is inspected, it doesn't mean it is a kosher installation. The same as a licensed contractor means you are registered with the State as a contractor and they are collecting your yearly fee, at least here in Commufonia is that way.

Here in PA the inspectors have more 'responsibility' in ensuring it is a safe, code compliant installation. Which quite frankly is the way it should be everywhere. What's the point in having an inspection if it is just a pay me first and Ill give you the rubber stamp of approval.

 

[Sparky2791]

Done quite frequently for shopping center exterior lighting.
Also done in manufactured gear for energy management. Big orange and big blue uses a contactor to turn off and on transformers and panelboards. Didn’t look that close for any wiring violations. Usually with the manufactured versions they have a dead front on the breakers though.

Yes- I see this design as a manufactured system by lighting controls manufacturers minus the main circuit breaker. That design is all enclosed in its own panelboard enclosure.

 

[jaggedben]

Open the hinged cover to the 3R enclosure and you have exposed wiring & terminal lugs. When simply operating a breaker you can accidentally touch live electrical parts. I realize it is accessible to authorized personnel only but still....

Yeah, what code section does that violate?

I don't see anything in 110.27 that explicitly prohibits this.

 

[hillbilly1]

Pretty crude.

Not pretty at all! LOL! Usually there is enough room in those enclosures you can put everything in it’s own box, and just pipe together, I don’t like everything open like that, but it is pretty common.

 

[infinity]

Would this fall under Article 409, industrial control panels? I don't see anything in that Article that would prohibit such an installation. Seems like a pretty typical panel with exposed live parts.

 

[wwhitney]

With the collection of breakers being used, does the assembly now count as a panelboard? 408.38 would require it to be dead-front, unless the exception applies.

Also, that one part has the reverse RU marking on it, does that mean it can't be field installed, and can only be used by a manufacturer or panel shop? That part also has two wires under one terminal.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[jaggedben]

NEMA 3R, hinged cover, live parts inside. Violation?

DU222RB - Safety switch, general duty, non fusible, 60A, 2 pole, 10hp, 240VAC, NEMA 3R, bolt on provision | Schneider Electric USA

Schneider Electric USA. DU222RB - Safety switch, general duty, non fusible, 60A, 2 pole, 10hp, 240VAC, NEMA 3R, bolt on provision.

www.se.com

Some people were so bothered by seeing this type of disconnect in solar installations that they added a (discriminatory) section in 690.15 requiring such disconnects to be locked or require a tool to open. I won't argue with the sensibility of it, but if such language were added to 110.27 (where it belongs, if they want to have it) then your locked enclosure would comply.

 

[jaggedben]

With the collection of breakers being used, does the assembly now count as a panelboard?

No.

408.38 would require it to be dead-front, unless the exception applies.

The exception would apply.

Also, that one part has the reverse RU marking on it, does that mean it can't be field installed, and can only be used by a manufacturer or panel shop?

I will find the thread on this.

That part also has two wires under one terminal.

That's the only thing about this that bothers me.

 

[jaggedben]

I will find the thread on this.

Definite purpose contactor

Like to hear what exactly is a definite purpose contactor Which example of its use full load capable? Continuous load?

forums.mikeholt.com

 

[tom baker]

Open the hinged cover to the 3R enclosure and you have exposed wiring & terminal lugs. When simply operating a breaker you can accidentally touch live electrical parts. I realize it is accessible to authorized personnel only but still....

It’s no different than a fused disconnect, an override allows door to be opened with power on

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

Looks like an auxiliary rod may be installed. I see a single bare conductor running into the panle.
I would open the panle and take a look to be sure it's in the ground bar.
I would also check to see if an EGC is ran with the feeder.

 

[Sparky2791]

Yeah, what code section does that violate?

I don't see anything in 110.27 that explicitly prohibits this.

This was the point of my post. I wanted to determine if any existed so you basically just asked the same question I did.

 

[Sparky2791]

It’s no different than a fused disconnect, an override allows door to be opened with power on

Except when you open a fused disconnect via the override there is not a Square D load center with 30A-2P breakers inside of it right next to the exposed live parts such as in this case. At least the door to the load center opens in the opposite direction of them. I am actually replacing all of this anyway because the service now needs 24/7 power from the load center which, in the current arrangement, it dose not have. A photocell controls the contactor that feeds the panel for dusk/dawn operation. I was mostly interested in others thoughts on this. NFPA 70E apply at all here?

 

[jaggedben]

This was the point of my post. I wanted to determine if any existed so you basically just asked the same question I did.

Ok, my responses so far may have been a bit rhetorical. Let me be more straightforward.

AFAIK this sort of thing isn't explicitly prohibited by code. It is a little crude, and arguably not best practice. But it's not clearly against code.