Three Phase Swimming Pool Pumps on GFCI Breakers

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GFCI protection is only required for single phase 120 and 240 volt motors - as per 2014 code - there were changes that now include all of them. Three phase wouldn't be required to have GFCI protection, but certainly isn't prohibited to have the protection. Why do you think there will be a problem? If it is tripping I would think it is just doing it's job of protecting you from a fault.
 
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kwired said:
GFCI protection is only required for single phase 120 and 240 volt motors - as per 2014 code - there were changes that now include all of them. Three phase wouldn't be required to have GFCI protection, but certainly isn't prohibited to have the protection. Why do you think there will be a problem? If it is tripping I would think it is just doing it's job of protecting you from a fault.
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While I was inspecting a large condominium I discovered that the green bond wires were left off the pool and spa pumps by the pool servicing firm who recently replaced them. The picture was the same as published when the child was electrocuted from the line voltage pool light. It seems the condo board felt the same. They immediately had a licensed electrician repair same. But the electrician used bare #10 wire instead of #8 bare or green. The board then asked me if there were any other things they could do. I figure use"gfi breakers". Does anyone know if they can be used on a 3 phase 208v - 40 ampere circuit for a commercial swimming pool pump.
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IRCS said:
While I was inspecting a large condominium I discovered that the green bond wires were left off the pool and spa pumps by the pool servicing firm who recently replaced them. The picture was the same as published when the child was electrocuted from the line voltage pool light. It seems the condo board felt the same. They immediately had a licensed electrician repair same. But the electrician used bare #10 wire instead of #8 bare or green. The board then asked me if there were any other things they could do. I figure use"gfi breakers". Does anyone know if they can be used on a 3 phase 208v - 40 ampere circuit for a commercial swimming pool pump.
Thanks
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Understanding what that external bonding lug is for is needed to understand grounding and bonding around pools and spas and other 680 applications. That external lug on the motor is not for the EGC of the motor circuit - that should be run with the motor circuit conductors, sized as you normally would for any other similar motor, and terminate at the motor terminal housing as it would for any other motor. The external lug is for bonding to other conductive items in and around the pool to create an equipotential grid between all the connected objects, so that if any stray voltage is introduced in any way by any of the (bonded) objects it will not necessarily reduce that voltage but rather will equalize it across all bonded objects so users of the pool are not subjected to different points of potential. This would be similar to a bird sitting on a high voltage overhead power line, the bird is at same potential as the line but never gets shocked because it can not touch anything of different potential.

GFCI three pole breakers are out there, not as much selection as there is for single and two pole, and there is nothing wrong with using one if you wanted. JMO but I think main reason NEC has in past required 125 volt single phase pumps to be GFCI protected has more to do with the number of cord and plug connected pumps - which would have a greater risk of a compromised EGC and GFCI is an additional safety layer should that motor fault to ground. Other voltages/number of phases have less chance of being cord and plug connected and a EGC that is directly connected instead of depending on a pin in a cord cap. Again JMO.
 
kwired said:
Understanding what that external bonding lug is for is needed to understand grounding and bonding around pools and spas and other 680 applications. That external lug on the motor is not for the EGC of the motor circuit - that should be run with the motor circuit conductors, sized as you normally would for any other similar motor, and terminate at the motor terminal housing as it would for any other motor. The external lug is for bonding to other conductive items in and around the pool to create an equipotential grid between all the connected objects, so that if any stray voltage is introduced in any way by any of the (bonded) objects it will not necessarily reduce that voltage but rather will equalize it across all bonded objects so users of the pool are not subjected to different points of potential. This would be similar to a bird sitting on a high voltage overhead power line, the bird is at same potential as the line but never gets shocked because it can not touch anything of different potential.

GFCI three pole breakers are out there, not as much selection as there is for single and two pole, and there is nothing wrong with using one if you wanted. JMO but I think main reason NEC has in past required 125 volt single phase pumps to be GFCI protected has more to do with the number of cord and plug connected pumps - which would have a greater risk of a compromised EGC and GFCI is an additional safety layer should that motor fault to ground. Other voltages/number of phases have less chance of being cord and plug connected and a EGC that is directly connected instead of depending on a pin in a cord cap. Again JMO.
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I think these are all good points.... I would also suggest GFCI protection around water to limit the chance of faulty equipment leaking to ground. JMO
 
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Fully Understood - now the electrician rewired all of the pool equipment with new, bare copper solid #10 wire. This should be #8, No? even if the original old bonding wire was #10. The pool is 20 years old but has been updated with all new low voltage lighting.
 
IRCS said:
Fully Understood - now the electrician rewired all of the pool equipment with new, bare copper solid #10 wire. This should be #8, No? even if the original old bonding wire was #10. The pool is 20 years old but has been updated with all new low voltage lighting.
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Is the conductor in question the EGC for the pump or is it the bonding jumper to the equipotential bonding?
 
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