tie ground to neutral

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frankmoon

Member
A tenant has tied the ground pin on a receptacle to the neutral. I know this is a clear NEC no-no but what is the risk? All the residential wiring is 50s era with only two-wire receptacles. Is there an easy solution?
Second: Is it ok to install a 3-wire GFCI without a ground connection to these locations?

frankmoon
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Re: tie ground to neutral

this seems like a diy type question and the forum rules prohibit answering such questions.

please contact a qualified electrician to deal with this problem.

to answer part of your question, it is a really bad idea to tie the neutral and ground pins together at the receptacle. the reasons are not necessarily obvious, but it does create a substantial hazard.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: tie ground to neutral

Originally posted by frankmoon:. . . but what is the risk?
This is a safety issue, so I will give a more detailed, and I hope clear and simple, answer to that part of the question.

The third pin, the "ground pin," is connected to the external metal parts of whatever you plug into the receptacle. The other two pins (or "prongs"), the "hot" and the "neutral" as they are sometimes called, are only connected to stuff that is inside the case. But if one of them were to break and come into contact with the case, it might give a shock to whoever next touches the case.

The purpose of the ground pin is to take that shock current from the case and send it directly back to the source. This current will be high enough to cause the circuit breaker to trip. In other words, the ground pin will save the life of the person touching the energized case.

If you have only a 2-prong receptacle (no ground pin), the protection you lose is the ability of the system to trip the circuit breaker. So whatever shock a person might get from the case will not be stopped, unless they are lucky enough to be able to pull their hand away, or perhaps they might fall on the floor (thus causing their hand to be pulled away from the case).

So what happens when you connect the ground and the neutral within a receptacle? You cause the case of whatever is plugged into that receptacle to become energized. How? By virtue of the fact that there is current flowing in the neutral wire, the fact that the neutral wire is connected to the ground wire, and the fact that the ground wire is connected to the case of whatever item you have plugged in.

Every time anyone touches that case, they will receive a shock. But that shock is usually very slight ? so slight that the person might not notice. Therefore, the person might continue to operate that equipment for years, and still not know they are in danger. In other instances, the person will not be so lucky. The amount of the shock might be low one day and higher the next day. It cannot always be predicted.

NOW HEAR THIS: If you plug something into an outlet that has the neutral and ground tied together, and if that something has metal parts on the outside, then as soon as you touch the thing there is going to be some current flowing through your heart. Might not be much, but it will happen. Every time. No exceptions.

Would you be happy about that?
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: tie ground to neutral

Originally posted by frankmoon: Second: Is it ok to install a 3-wire GFCI without a ground connection to these locations?
Your profile says "retired." But it does not say what you are retired from. If you were an electrician, I think it likely that you would already know that answer. I have to conclude that your profession was something else.

If that is true, then the Forum rules prohibit us from giving you that kind of assistance. I would normally have sent you a Private Message, to advise you of my concern. But you have not enabled that feature.

Therefore, I am closing this thread, at least on a temporary basis. If you can give me assurances that you are (or were) a qualified electrician, then I will reopen this thread, and allow the membership to give you whatever assistance we can.

You may have to first enable the PM feature, in order to make contact with me. It is an option that you select by first hitting the menu item called "My Profile."
 
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