Time Duration of SCCR ratings

Grouch1980

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New York, NY
Do SCCR ratings have published time durations? For example, an unfused disconnect switch usually has an SCCR rating of 10kA. Does this SCCR rating also come with a time duration? I never see it on cutsheets... where does one find this? Another example is SCCR ratings of HVAC units... you'll see 5kA... but I never see information on the time associated with that rating.
 

petersonra

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I don't believe there is any published spec for how long the scc can exist.

As a practical matter, all circuits are required to have effective branch circuit ocpd so it's not like the scc could last for more than a few cycles.

The SCCR is really about the device being able to survive a very high current for a very short period of time.
 

jim dungar

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For the most part terms like SCCR, for typical 600V class equipment, is based on three cycles. But, for 'industrial' 600V equipment, like drawout switchgear, and MV equipment a withstand of 30 seconds is not unusual. It is not uncommon for equipment to have multiple ratings.
 

Jraef

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SCCR is the successor to what we used to call “withstand rating”, in that it is the amount of current that can pass THROUGH a device or series combination of devices, without it reacting to the physical forces of the magnetic repulsion-attraction resulting from that current flow causing things to become shrapnel. It doesn’t have to survive and be used again, it just has to not cause collateral damage.

There is no fixed time value in the SCCR testing procure, however the way it works is that most power devices are allowed a 10kA value with minimal non-destructive testing, or a 5kA value with no testing. To be clear though, having a 10kA rating does not guarantee that it will survive, it is just basically an acknowledgement that since 10kA is pretty much the lowest interrupt rating of OCPDs anyway, it’s not much of a risk.

Then if you want a higher value SCCR, the device must be tested either by itself or in SERIES with a SPECIFIC OCPD (fuse or circuit breaker). In that test, the entire series combination must remain passive (official term for not become shrapnel) during the short-circuit interruption period of the line side protective device.

So the time period is whatever the fault clearing time is of the fuse or breaker portion of that tested series combination. This is one reason why you cannot field apply a current limiting fuse when you have too high of a fault current or a supplier punted and just applied a 5kA SCCR to a panel rather than try to get higher. Without testing, you have no way of knowing for sure if the downstream devices “remain passive” in that clearing time.

Side note: yes, I’m aware that in theory, a licensed PE can evaluate an untested series combination and approve it via a letter. I have in several cases tried to help customers with this method, I have never found a PE willing to do it.
 

Grouch1980

Senior Member
Location
New York, NY
There is no fixed time value in the SCCR testing procure, however the way it works is that most power devices are allowed a 10kA value with minimal non-destructive testing, or a 5kA value with no testing. To be clear though, having a 10kA rating does not guarantee that it will survive, it is just basically an acknowledgement that since 10kA is pretty much the lowest interrupt rating of OCPDs anyway, it’s not much of a risk.
So now I'm confused. Post #3 above mentions SCCR ratings are based on 3 cycles for non-industrial type equipment.
 

jim dungar

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So now I'm confused. Post #3 above mentions SCCR ratings are based on 3 cycles for non-industrial type equipment.
There is a slight difference between SCCR and AIC ratings. Most of jraef's discussion applies to devices/equipment with contacts.
UL 891 covers the bus bar bracing which is not likely to ever become shrapnel, but rather it becomes bent which can compromise its voltage clearances.

Look at the difference between UL switchboards and switchgear, like Schneider Electric's MW breakers. Two different standards even though the equipment is otherwise identical.
 

Grouch1980

Senior Member
Location
New York, NY
There is no fixed time value in the SCCR testing procure, however the way it works is that most power devices are allowed a 10kA value with minimal non-destructive testing, or a 5kA value with no testing. To be clear though, having a 10kA rating does not guarantee that it will survive, it is just basically an acknowledgement that since 10kA is pretty much the lowest interrupt rating of OCPDs anyway, it’s not much of a risk.
I don't understand this paragraph. I understand the difference between SCCR and AIC ratings, but I don't understand the opening sentence of 'no fixed time value'. Fixed time value of what? And by 'power device'... do you mean OCPD's?
 
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Jraef

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I don't understand this paragraph. I understand the difference between SCCR and AIC ratings, but I don't understand the opening sentence of 'no fixed time value'. Fixed time value of what? And by 'power device'... do you mean OCPD's?
Jim had mentioned the 3 cycle time issues which has only to do with switchgear fault ratings. SCCR applies to more than just switchgear and has no relation to the 3 cycle rating of UL 891 listed gear. If you are going to submit a series combination of devices to attain an SCCR for them, the time value is not some fixed amount of time like that, it is whatever the cheating time is for whatever protective device is involved in the combination.
 

Grouch1980

Senior Member
Location
New York, NY
Jim had mentioned the 3 cycle time issues which has only to do with switchgear fault ratings. SCCR applies to more than just switchgear and has no relation to the 3 cycle rating of UL 891 listed gear. If you are going to submit a series combination of devices to attain an SCCR for them, the time value is not some fixed amount of time like that, it is whatever the cheating time is for whatever protective device is involved in the combination.
Ah. Do I have these SCCR time durations correct then?:
1) Switchgear: 3 cycles as published in UL 891
2) 'Industrial' type equipment, as described in Post #3: 30 seconds.
3) Fused disconnects: however long it takes for the fuses to clear / melt.
4) Panels, unfused disconnects, etc.: there is no published data.
 
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Grouch1980

Senior Member
Location
New York, NY
and 5) Transfer Switches: dependent on manufacturer. However as Post #10 mentions, the time duration for some ATS's is the clearing time of the upstream OCPD, but that clearing time also affects the SCCR rating of that ATS.
 
If you are interested, here is the thread on the ATS mentioned in posts #10 and 13. Maybe it will help you with some of your questions:

 

Grouch1980

Senior Member
Location
New York, NY
If you are interested, here is the thread on the ATS mentioned in posts #10 and 13. Maybe it will help you with some of your questions:

Awesome, thank you.

Regarding item 4 in my Post #15... I'm assuming regular panelboards, unfused disconnects, or vendor provided equipment such as AC units, don't have any published time durations with their SCCR ratings?
 

jim dungar

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