To walk away or not

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Ken9876

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Jersey Shore
Just went to a woman's home that wants some electrical work done, she had a nice bay window installed about 12' long on an outside bearing wall, NO HEADER :eek: . Asked her if this was being inspected she said no, pointed to the permit on the window, she said that was for the oil tank. It looks like the handyman was doing some of the electrical work and was going to bury a box or two, and already had moved some. And it doesn't seem that she wants to get anymore permits. I'm thinking I should just run from this job.
 
Re: To walk away or not

I also like the idea of making phone calls, but in this case, I think she'd figure out it was you who made the calls, and then who knows what kind of repercussions that would lead to for you. For all you know, this woman might have a very large network of friends who would be more than happy to spread your name around as an electrician not to call. If you make trouble for her, don't be surprised if she makes trouble for you.

Either way, I'd walk. She's someone who hires hacks and avoids permits, so it's unlikely she's interested in paying the going rate for a professional job. I don't want clients like that.
 
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Not only do I not want clients like that either, I don't want any of her referrals either. I have only reported illegal work 3 times in the last 15 years, but this gal is a little over the top here. This is happening currently, and shouldn't rightfully be ignored.
 
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I'd be incliend to tell her you are uninterested in working on her stuff and move on. I don't see any reason to rat on her.
 
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Well Bob, I know that you think that a header on a 12 ft. span of load bearing wall is there so the carpenter can charge more and making sure that all taps are in boxes and accessible is an electrical scam. But these really are safety issues. Some poor unsuspecting person may buy this house in a year or two and the home inspector is not going to catch these faults. The problem with letting someone do whatever they want on thier own property is that it may not be their property for very long. If the poeple that created these death traps were the only ones affected I would be all for it. The poeple that refer to this as rating someone out are the same poeple that walk by when a rape or robbery is going on and do nothing. What ever happened to civic responsibility.
 
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Sometimes those who do know, must protect those who do not know, from themselves ! :roll:
I feel that with the amount of violations and the severity of them this should be reported.

[ June 27, 2005, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: luckyshadow ]
 
Re: To walk away or not

Originally posted by luckyshadow:
I feel that with the amount of violations and the severity of them this should be reported.
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That was sort of what drove me to respond to report this. I don't see myself as the "code police" since I probably only report 1 out of every 10,000 violators I see. There's a certain line in the sand (that may be different for each person) that should really shouldn't be crossed. I have fellow tradesmen who make it sort of a hobby reporting violations and violators to the proper AHJ. I see this as a low class effort.
 
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It should be reported.People like that are what keeps real craftsmen out of work.
Be carefull on how you turn her in.It is public record so i suggest an unsigned letter or phone call from a pay booth
 
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Yes' this is part of public record. In my area you can't make a call or use an unsigned letter. The only way that code enforcement will respond is if you send in a signed letter. They don't want it to appear as if they are harassing people or enforcing the law in anyway. But once they get a letter from a concerned citizen, eliminating the harassment charge they are johnny on the spot.
I wish the general public knew just how unconcerned the local government is with their lives and property. In my area if these people are caught doing unsafe & unpermitted work they will have to pay double the permit fee and do the job to code. I don't think this is to severe since the building could collapse and injure or kill someone. Since it's more trouble than it's worth ( nothing really happens ) most people only report serious violations. For the public good.
 
Re: To walk away or not

Originally posted by petersonra:
I don't see any reason to rat on her.
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Rat?

Very mature. :roll:

I have dropped a dime before and I am proud that I 'ratted'.

My fianc? at the time was a manager at a restaurant, her office was in the basement. Right after they had replaced an electric water heater with a gas fired one she started getting headaches. The work was done without permits or inspections.

After I looked into it, it was obvious the kitchen exhaust fans were creating negative pressure in the building resulting in CO2 being drawn out of the water heater stack and poisoning the occupants. :mad:

I called the fire chief and they came down right away. Resulting in the restaurant immediately being closed while proper repairs where made, fines levied against the owners and the plumbers.

All 'tradesmen' have an obligation to perform their trade to meet the codes in the area they work.

I have no sympathy for them if they ignore that obligation and get caught.

I would do it again in a heart beat.

[ June 27, 2005, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
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Good work Bob. It takes ALOT to annoy me but the term "Rat on somebody" does the trick. I suppose it is some badge of honor to see a crime committed and not report it.
 
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I'd call the building dept. and I would also let her know. The handyman that destroyed her house should be held liable for the mess he created. Have a General Contractor who you know come and explain the situation to her. Heck try to get the hadyman there. I did this with a rouge electrican who's wiring cause damage to some recording equipment. They called him to explain his wiring tech. and I was there to show him code. He was fired, sued and is now out of business!
 
Re: To walk away or not

I don't see any reason to rat on her.
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Bob -
Almost 20 years ago one of my neighbors and his wife got into a spat. So he shot at her, she filed charges the next day and the cops arrested him. I was at another neighbor's when she told her husband that night that she heard on their police scanner that the cops were coming to pick the shooter up. He flipped out on her that she was a rotten neighbor for not going over and telling him so he could run from the cops! Even as a young teenager that logic didn't make sense to me, nor does your response.

Having been on the side of buying a house in which hack work was done and then having to spend $$$$ out of my pocket just to make it safe I wish more people would get "ratted on." I actually spoke with the "contractor" that did the work and his response was, "we didn't want to do it that way but the home owner didn't want to spend the money and if we didn't someone else would have."

Tony
 
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There is a huge difference between reporting a crime and ratting out someone over a minor building code regulation.

I would admit that a 12' window without a header is not exactly a minor violation though.

Best bet in my mind would be to send a letter to the building department outlining your concerns and copy her if you feel it is a serious enough hazard. In my mind, that is not ratting out someone, but being upfront about a serious problem. The anonymous letter or phone call is a coward's way out.
 
Re: To walk away or not

Bob,

If my roof had collapsed because of the non-code compliant work and killed or injured a family member no crime was committed? In thinking the incident I used was actually almost 30 years ago, my wife told me things would change when I hit 40 and I thought she was full of it. ;) Was it wrong for my friend's mother to not warn the shooter? Was it wrong for the father to have wanted him warned so he could run? Is it wrong to disclose issues such as the one being discussed?

In a previous life I worked for a counseling agency and they had this saying when someone would try and dodge responsibility by stating they did not say yes, instead they said nothing. Consent by silence, if you say nothing it is the same as saying yes or agreeing to what happened.

The guy that butchered the roof on my first house couldn't be shutdown because there was no inspection of the bad work he did for the previous owner. I couldn't publicly say anything bad about him lest I get sued for libel. However, the codes enforcement officer(AHJ) for the township I lived in was invited into the house to see all the work that was done under a permit for 3 replacement windows. Accordingly, he made a note to do a drive by inspection of every permit that contractor pulled with them and mention the issue with his peers in neighboring townships as they like to keep each other informed of those types of things. That was over 10 years ago and I haven't seen any advertising from that contractor for some time.
 
Re: To walk away or not

Originally posted by petersonra:
The anonymous letter or phone call is a coward's way out.
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Then fine I am a coward. :D

I can sleep well with that, I very well have saved a life, perhaps the life of my children's Mother.

Had I not been anonymous I most likely would have cost my wife her job at the time.

I can see no reason that my wifes job should have been at risk just because the owners of this restaurant where too cheep pay for a professional tradesman. :roll:
 
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the problem with topics like this is that there is no "correct" answer. It is emotionally loaded like religion or politics and the beliefs are vested in feelings and personal anecdote. It may be possible to rationally come to some middle ground, but not with the personal and specific trying to become the norm.

Without trying to disprove the "ratters" and their argument for public safety, I grew up with the story of the German youth ratting on their parents and neighbors. This was publicly disgraced in both the American and world press and the political arena.

Every one knows that if you offer to help the police, you are considered a suspect, and then the police ask why didn't you come forward if you didn't initially. Informing or not is a "no-win" situation in many, many cases. Gossips and informers are socially viewed as biased against those informed on, as everyone knows that there are at least two sides to every story. Even with new laws to protect the careers of informers (public safety defects) their careers are usually ruined. Except for Linda Tripp's trip, this is true in many areas.

There was a pole that supported the high perch that I used to occupy to view others' travails, but it is worn smooth now from my slow-slipping, tight gripped descent. too smooth to reclimb, polished by the intensity of my grip (beliefs).

paul.
 
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There is a huge difference between reporting a crime and ratting out someone over a minor building code regulation.
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I've asked myself the same question a few times. :(

[ June 28, 2005, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
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