too lazy to pull the right wire

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brother

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Well I'm just venting a little. Had a job where we had to pull in new circuits and we used the existing conduit and found that some previous worker had just used white tape on a black wire (#12) to make it a neutral and this was commecial thhn wire and not cable. The problem i have with this is that its a violation of 200.6 2005 NEC.

The run was not that far, they were just too lazy to pull in the right color for the neutral. Well I guess at least they did identify it with white tape.
Not only that from what im told most inspectors dont even enforce that article of the code. OH well, I guess Im just being nit picky.

It just bugs me when people are too LAZY to pull a short run with the right colors and you DO have all the material and TIME to do it right.
 
brother said:
Well I'm just venting a little. Had a job where we had to pull in new circuits and we used the existing conduit and found that some previous worker had just used white tape on a black wire (#12) to make it a neutral and this was commecial thhn wire and not cable. The problem i have with this is that its a violation of 200.6 2005 NEC.

The run was not that far, they were just too lazy to pull in the right color for the neutral. Well I guess at least they did identify it with white tape.
Not only that from what im told most inspectors dont even enforce that article of the code. OH well, I guess Im just being nit picky.

It just bugs me when people are too LAZY to pull a short run with the right colors and you DO have all the material and TIME to do it right.
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who knows why things get done the way they are done, it could have been lazyness, ignorance, or it could have been an after hours or weekend service call, but ultimately if that were the case, it should have been a return trip....
 
I would not lose sleep over that. That rule is a joke, IMO. What harm is it in reidentifying a # 12. I realize it is code and I don't advocate breaking the rules but there are much worse issues to worry about.
 
I agree with Dennis. There's much better things to lose sleep over.
If someone gets into that box and can't figure it out, then he/she shouldn't be in that box. But I think you should follow the code.
 
How about remarking a white wire in a pipe with black tape?

Is that also something not to worry about?

If it's pipe I use the right colors even if that means pulling a new one in with using the old wire as a pull string.
 
I dont see it as big deal long as marked.Its legal with cable but not in pipe.They likely did not have the right color on truck.If electrician is confused over this he needs to get out of buisness.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
I dont see it as big deal long as marked.Its legal with cable but not in pipe.They likely did not have the right color on truck.If electrician is confused over this he needs to get out of buisness.
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Sadly, electricians aren't the only ones working on the stuff. The rules are an attempt to make installations idiot proof. The only problem with that is idiot proofing is nearly always taken as a recommendation to let idiots work on things. To me, idiot proofing is contrary to nature as it is a conscious and ongoing effort to neutralize (pun intended) the law of the survival of the fittest, adaptation and mutation and take work from the trained, skilled and qualified.

Wouldn't it be better for our trade if *all* wires were the same color and we had to know how to test each one we worked on to know what it was?

Just think if our organs were color coded. Anyone with a scalpel and a pulse could be a doctor, and the scalpel could be borrowed.

OK, bad analogy.....
 
Years ago, I lived in a house that someone had previously run an underground rigid-conduit circuit for an above-ground pool pump. They used three green conductors, with one taped black and one taped white. :rolleyes:
 
K8MHZ said:
Wouldn't it be better for our trade if *all* wires were the same color and we had to know how to test each one we worked on to know what it was?
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I have made that same statement more than once.
 
Seen it many times. I just cite 200.6 and 250.119 except for Multi conductor cables and the old quote "maintenance and supervision ensure that only Qualified persons SERVICE the installation" NFPA had to draw a line somewhere I guess.
 
The problem with idiot proofing is someone always make a better idiot. Can't win on this one. While we may not agree with the code, I don't believe that we can selectively comply or enforce the code. In the end, it will come back to haunt you.
 
mdshunk said:
Do the electrons know what color the insulation is? Do they get confused?
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Yes they know but if you give them right color tape at ends they manage.Lets be fair if its your own house and you have lots of black #10 would you go buy green and white ?
 
well said

well said

Jim W in Tampa said:
I dont see it as big deal long as marked.Its legal with cable but not in pipe.They likely did not have the right color on truck.If electrician is confused over this he needs to get out of buisness.
Click to expand...
Jim, I like the way you think!!:D :grin:
 
color blind

color blind

mdshunk said:
Do the electrons know what color the insulation is? Do they get confused?
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Marc, I worked with a 'ole timer for a while and all he use to say was "wire's color blind"!! I have been in many old buildings that the green was the "hot", or the red was the ground.???:-?
 
mdshunk said:
Do the electrons know what color the insulation is? Do they get confused?
Click to expand...

Oh, they know. They just don't care. They are very smart but you just can't trust them. The ones that aren't just sitting around in a capacitor somewhere all day long are just trying to look busy until they can find a short cut home no matter how much heat they get for cutting out early. Just try to get them to stop and see how short of a fuse they have. The best we can do is to keep an ion them at all times and stay current with their mischievous ways. Anyone that disagrees with me may be shocked to find out otherwise. Electrons....don't trust them. Just when you think they are your friends they will blow up in your face. Even if we lock them all up in a cell they seem to figure how to eventually escape over a period of time.

Never have I encountered a more negative group in my life.
 
brother said:
Well I'm just venting a little. Had a job where we had to pull in new circuits and we used the existing conduit and found that some previous worker had just used white tape on a black wire (#12) to make it a neutral and this was commecial thhn wire and not cable. The problem i have with this is that its a violation of 200.6 2005 NEC.

The run was not that far, they were just too lazy to pull in the right color for the neutral. Well I guess at least they did identify it with white tape.
Not only that from what im told most inspectors dont even enforce that article of the code. OH well, I guess Im just being nit picky.

It just bugs me when people are too LAZY to pull a short run with the right colors and you DO have all the material and TIME to do it right.
Click to expand...
It is such a rediculous code because if the person cannot identify what the wire is for he should try being a plumber. Some desk jockey dreamed up this code from his laptop and obviously has zero field experience. There are many colorblind electricians out there in the field and I consider this rule a harrassment of the color challenged. I should propose a petition for the next code change or a class action lawsuit as being unfair to colorblind handicapped persons. If a wire is Identified at both ends like a quick pull what is the big deal. What safety issue is being breached when the wire is identified every 6 inches??? Who actually proposed this code and why ?? Wire manufacturers?? Who is in bed with them?? People are not all lazy if they bought 1 reel of wire to do the job and 8 rolls of tape I dont see what the problem is.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Yes they know but if you give them right color tape at ends they manage.Lets be fair if its your own house and you have lots of black #10 would you go buy green and white ?
Click to expand...

Call me what you like but yes I would.:smile:
 
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