Top Feed vs Bottom Feed

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ncsuper

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We are building a new four story wing to an existing hospital in southern California, dealing with the "all knowing all powerful" OSHPD. We are installing Sq D, type NQ and NF, panel boards. The panels were ordered to be "bottom feed" and during design and installation, we changed some of the feeds to "top feed" and flipped the interiors so the lugs are on the top side of the panel to keep the feeder conductors as direct as possible. The panel covers are all installed the same and have the same door swing. The "arc flash" decals were "upside down" and we had a Sq D rep come to the site and install new decals, all of the other decals and labels were "right side up". The installation instructions say, " the panel orientation is dictated in the field".

Here's the problem, the OSHPD inspector is asking for a letter, or other kind of proof, that the panel was tested and is listed to be installed in either orientation and that the integrity of the panel is not affected by changing from "bottom feed" to "top feed". We have contacted Sq D for help and they have provided letters from their engineering but OSHPD wants it to come from a third party NRTL.

We have provided photos, product literature and letters from Sq D and even brought a panel and interior in to the office, so they can see how the interior mounts, they are not budging.

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. What am I missing?
 
Well it doesn't matter what we think but ion my opinion they are being ridiculous about this. What difference does the orientation make. The breakers, I assume are still side to side so do they think the bus bar wont work upside down. :happyno:
 
ncsuper said:
We are building a new four story wing to an existing hospital in southern California, dealing with the "all knowing all powerful" OSHPD. We are installing Sq D, type NQ and NF, panel boards. The panels were ordered to be "bottom feed" and during design and installation, we changed some of the feeds to "top feed" and flipped the interiors so the lugs are on the top side of the panel to keep the feeder conductors as direct as possible. The panel covers are all installed the same and have the same door swing. The "arc flash" decals were "upside down" and we had a Sq D rep come to the site and install new decals, all of the other decals and labels were "right side up". The installation instructions say, " the panel orientation is dictated in the field".

Here's the problem, the OSHPD inspector is asking for a letter, or other kind of proof, that the panel was tested and is listed to be installed in either orientation and that the integrity of the panel is not affected by changing from "bottom feed" to "top feed". We have contacted Sq D for help and they have provided letters from their engineering but OSHPD wants it to come from a third party NRTL.

We have provided photos, product literature and letters from Sq D and even brought a panel and interior in to the office, so they can see how the interior mounts, they are not budging.

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. What am I missing?
Click to expand...

An opportunity to move out of the People's Republic of California?
 
ncsuper said:
We have contacted Sq D for help and they have provided letters from their engineering but OSHPD wants it to come from a third party NRTL.
Click to expand...
What NRTL do they want approval from?
If they will not accept the instructions that are part of the UL Listing, what proof do they want?
You will spend a lot of wasted time, if you have to guess what they want.

Have you tried 'as installed' drawings from the factory? Maybe the problem is really 'clerical'.
 
OSHPD lives in their own world their only mandate is to pad the bill, since they get a percentage of the project cost. :thumbsdown:
 
norcal said:
OSHPD lives in their own world their only mandate is to pad the bill, since they get a percentage of the project cost. :thumbsdown:
Click to expand...

It seems they need to take a percentage of the project cost and invest it in better educating their inspectors.
 
Granted to the average reader, we all see how insane this is!

Your company went away from the contract documents without approval.
You didn't send in a RFI or RFP (whichever) to cover this new application.
This is all it comes down to.

Jobs like yours are by the book, you can't sneeze unless you ask to.
I think you know this already, if you've spent any time on this job!

You said ?design and installation?; it should have been ?arrangement and installation?;
You and your company had no say in the original design of this Hospital, you where there to follow
the ?design and installation?!

What would be stupid is if the inspect gets there way, and it doesn't look like it's in your favor!
Ask the Owners Chief Electrical to get involved and hopefully to sign off on it.
The only other thing is to get the inspectors boss involved but the first thing they'll ask is where's the paper work!

I only comment on this because Monday I'm starting on a Job with similar sneeze approval required,
can't wait, it's been awhile!
 
NF Panels

NF Panels

Can't the lugs be moved from the bottom to top,
or vice-versa? We just had an NF panel that had the lugs
at the bottom and they were simply moved to the top.
The lug mounting may be done top or bottom (at least
in the last one I inspected) QO panels I am unsure of.
 
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