Tracer Wire help

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RichB said:
Check out Pro-trace HF-CCS PE30--Its a copper clad steel and considerably cheaper than thhn/thwn with much better strength characteristics
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Watch out that you don't cut that with the wrong cutter, rated for copper/aluminum only.
 
How true--That's why I carry the blue handled Klein dykes--after going through a couple of the red handled ones early in my carreer
 
so yes, tracer wire not really needed for electrical wires, but when the need arises there is no requirement for anyone to go digging in my panel to kill the power and hook into a wire to trace on. probably much faster too. i believe there are also electrical wands that can sense the electric field/Hz of the underground wires for certain types of burials (shallow in pvc, vs >24" in concrete) ??

~$35 for 500ft 14awg 600v pvc (single annealed copper), not expensive at all to drop in the trench. i guess just me going above/beyond for the sake of future easiness.

kwired said:
Also THHN/THWN likely lasts longer direct buried when it is not energized - which is the case with tracer wire.
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lasts longer than what? itself when comparing energized vs dead ??
THHN/THWN is not rated UF ("direct burial"). there are only a few types rated for direct burial.
see http://www.ul.com/global/documents/offerings/perspectives/regulators/electrical/newsletters/W&CMG_April2007_Final.pdf
 
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FionaZuppa said:
lasts longer than what? itself when comparing energized vs dead ??
THHN/THWN is not rated UF ("direct burial"). there are only a few types rated for direct burial.
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Yes. The conductor within is still the same it is the insulation that needs to be able to handle the environment. If a tracer wire has some leakage to ground, it generally is still traceable, and unless subjected to some extreme corrosive environment - this tracer could probably be bare and still last a very long time before it deteriorates to a level it is no loner usable.

Bare copper is traceable - I have located bare copper LP gas lines many times, but something insulated will have less signal introduced into nearby conductive objects and will be easier to trace.
 
kwired said:
Yes. The conductor within is still the same it is the insulation that needs to be able to handle the environment. If a tracer wire has some leakage to ground, it generally is still traceable, and unless subjected to some extreme corrosive environment - this tracer could probably be bare and still last a very long time before it deteriorates to a level it is no loner usable.

Bare copper is traceable - I have located bare copper LP gas lines many times, but something insulated will have less signal introduced into nearby conductive objects and will be easier to trace.
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the wire risers need to be color coded (well, in my locale it does), thus its just easier to find colored UF wire. plumbing places usually have blue and yellow, oddly some electrical places dont have any or carry blue or yellow, and my local irrigation warehouse had the red.
pennwell.web.500.383.gif
 
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FionaZuppa said:
the wire risers need to be color coded (well, in my locale it does), thus its just easier to find colored UF wire. plumbing places usually have blue and yellow, oddly some electrical places dont have any or carry blue or yellow, and my local irrigation warehouse had the red.
pennwell.web.500.383.gif
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If there is demand for it, someone will sell it. Demand must not be all that high if you are having difficulty finding it so not so many are using it for power but apparently irrigation controls are using it more frequently.
 
FionaZuppa said:
anyone have a online source for some tracer wire
PVC or HDPE type UF, 18awg (typically single soft copper), 250 or 500ft red roll.

i go to a local electrical supply house (because guy on phone tells me he has it) and when i get there they cant find it, so they said "not in stock, can have it mid-july", but he had blue and yellow. yikes, he's an electrical outlet shop so why is he stocking water and gas colored tracer wire...???!!
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91601.jpg
Is this what you are looking for? http://www.bradyid.com/bradyid/scv/103986/103986/Underground-Warning-Tape.html
 
FionaZuppa said:
no, but i did use tape like this at about 8" under grade over the top of my pipes. better to be safe than sorry.....
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If it has foil backing, which it appears to have in that photo, it is traceable and would possibly fulfill what you want from an "insulated conductor"
 
kwired said:
If it has foil backing, which it appears to have in that photo, it is traceable and would possibly fulfill what you want from an "insulated conductor"
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seems like it would tear easily while doing backfill? i get the UF PVC 600v wire for about $35/500ft. the wire is easy to wrap up on a riser pipe. i have never used the foil tape though....
 
FionaZuppa said:
seems like it would tear easily while doing backfill? i get the UF PVC 600v wire for about $35/500ft. the wire is easy to wrap up on a riser pipe. i have never used the foil tape though....
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Most I have seen stretches pretty well. You generally need to cut it instead of trying to tear it when you intentionally want to cut it.
 
Works great and doesnt tear upon backfill

Works great and doesnt tear upon backfill

FionaZuppa said:
no, but i did use tape like this at about 8" under grade over the top of my pipes. better to be safe than sorry.....
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I have installed literally miles of this "detectable marking tape" on interstates throughout SC, NC and VA. It doesnt tear and it is called detectable when it is foil backed as stated. It works great.
 
Our utility guys use 12 THHW solid and what ever color they like. We are a mid size utility with about 40,000 water services so they go thru a lot of wire. 18 AWG seems pretty small.
 
Transportation Guy said:
I have installed literally miles of this "detectable marking tape" on interstates throughout SC, NC and VA.
It doesnt tear and it is called detectable when it is foil backed as stated. It works great.
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If works if the back hoe operator is paying attention. Yesterday at work, guy trenching for a new service got into sand, then the marker, then the water main.
You could clearly see the marker just upstream of our newly developed river.
 
Pretty Rivers

Pretty Rivers

Aleman said:
If works if the back hoe operator is paying attention. Yesterday at work, guy trenching for a new service got into sand, then the marker, then the water main.
You could clearly see the marker just upstream of our newly developed river.
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LOL. Water mains make such beautiful waterfalls and rivers when they are cut with back hoes.

It also helps if you install the tape 18" or so above the utility, not directly on top. Its dual purpose for a reason!
 
Transportation Guy said:
LOL. Water mains make such beautiful waterfalls and rivers when they are cut with back hoes.

It also helps if you install the tape 18" or so above the utility, not directly on top. Its dual purpose for a reason!
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Did not see it myself but heard about it from someone else that did see it - an impressive water fountain was made when excavating in high groundwater table area and a 800 psi natural gas line was damaged, according to this person water was shooting 30-40 feet in the air.:eek:
 
FionaZuppa said:
the wire risers need to be color coded (well, in my locale it does), thus its just easier to find colored UF wire. plumbing places usually have blue and yellow, oddly some electrical places dont have any or carry blue or yellow, and my local irrigation warehouse had the red.
pennwell.web.500.383.gif
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I always thought this chart represented the paint color used by locaters in the field so that excavators knew where & what was below -- the only code required wire tracer I know of is for gas line which of course is yellow. Have no problem with above & beyond rquirements
 
mwm1752 said:
I always thought this chart represented the paint color used by locaters in the field so that excavators knew where & what was below -- the only code required wire tracer I know of is for gas line which of course is yellow. Have no problem with above & beyond rquirements
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That color chart is sometimes carried farther they just field marking of buried utilities, though it may just be for consistency more so then to satisfy some code.

You find a lot of communications they bury orange HDPE pipe to install their lines in, could probably be any color but they choose orange just because it designates communications.

A lot of poly water piping carrying potable water is often blue these days.

Permanent signs, bollards, etc that warn of buried utilites in the area but are not necessarily an actual marker are still often using the colors from that chart as a primary color of the device.
 
Transportation Guy said:
LOL. Water mains make such beautiful waterfalls and rivers when they are cut with back hoes.

It also helps if you install the tape 18" or so above the utility, not directly on top. Its dual purpose for a reason!
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Looks like the original marking was done right. It was a stub coming off the main. The back hoe hooked it and ripped it out of the main. Oh well.
The guy must not have been paying attention. Kind of cool looking since the leak was under the street. A long cascading shower coming down into the
trench from under the asphalt.
 
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