Transformer or what

Status
Not open for further replies.
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I got specs for an elevator on the house we are remoldeling. The specs call for 220V 30 amps with no allowance for other voltages. 230V or 210 v is not acceptable. I suspect the house has 244v or so.

My question is if I get a trany that goes from 240-220v the fact that I have 244 or more volts will I still get 220V? or do I also need a voltage regulator? Will a voltage regulator work instead of a trany? Company states either a trany or voltage regulator.

Never seen an elevator that works on a vacuum-- like the air tubes you see at a drive thru at banks.
 
kwired said:
Only needs capacity to handle the difference in current resulting from the transformation, full isolation transformer needs to handle full capacity of the load.
Click to expand...


I just called the manufacturer and they are saying a buck boost transformer--- Maybe this specific 220v is not as critical as hey say
 
What manufacturer would build a motor and controls to a voltage without regard to what is in common use in the country they sell the product?:?

Even Europe is not on 220 v.

NOS elevator from 1920? (New Old Stock for you non car people):D

BTW, buck boost is what one does use to make a critical voltage. Non critical means no transformer needed for 10% difference in voltage. Like 480 volt motors on long lines that run on 450 volts (think ships, very long lines), no transformer needed usually. An auto transformer is another way of looking at buck boost (draw the diagram).;)
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I just called the manufacturer and they are saying a buck boost transformer--- Maybe this specific 220v is not as critical as hey say
Click to expand...
I'd be very surprised if it was. Normally, at least in my experience, plant is designed to operate over the the supply voltage tolerance limits.
 
Buck boost transformers are an autotransformer that is generally a good way to modify the voltage for a load where voltage drop isn't the reason for compensating. When using for voltage drop they are only good for a constant load.
 
Slow poster - you already got everything I had to offer

Dennis Alwon said:
I got specs for an elevator on the house we are remoldeling. The specs call for 220V 30 amps with no allowance for other voltages. 230V or 210 v is not acceptable. I suspect the house has 244v or so.

My question is if I get a trany that goes from 240-220v the fact that I have 244 or more volts will I still get 220V? or do I also need a voltage regulator? Will a voltage regulator work instead of a trany? Company states either a trany or voltage regulator.

Never seen an elevator that works on a vacuum-- like the air tubes you see at a drive thru at banks.
Click to expand...

It's time to call the mfg and get the voltage spec. Cause if the spec is 220V ± 0V that is pretty moron. The power company likely doesn't promise any thing closer than 5%.

No, the mfg has to have an input voltage tolerance. Then again maybe not. In which case just wait a few minutes and they will pass out cause they are too stupid to breathe. Maybe the next one will be brighter.

My question is if I get a trany that goes from 240-220v the fact that I have 244 or more volts will I still get 220V?
No - you will get 223.67V. If you find a 240V/24V buck boost (kwired's auto transformer) at 244V in, gives 219.6V ± utility tolerance.

or do I also need a voltage regulator?
Depends on their tolerance spec.

Will a voltage regulator work instead of a trany?
I would get them to spec the regulator. I don't know what is available for voltage regulators these days. Maybe there is something better than ferro-resonant. Ferro-resonant regulators take a bite out of the sine wave. The RMS voltage is right, but the waveform looks bad. I have first hand evidence switching power supplies don't like ferro-resonant regulators.
 
Last edited:
Here is there statement

PVE37 Electrical Specifications
The following are the electrical requirements for a 3 Stop elevator, model series PVE37:
Ø 220 VAC (no exceptions 220VAC must be provided, 210 VAC or 230 VAC is not acceptable, if installation does not have 220 VAC on a
regular basis,
a voltage regulator or transformer must be installed by the home owner). Voltage fluctuations are not covered by the warranty. I love this part
Ø 1 phase
Ø 3 Wire (L1, L2, Ground)
Ø 30 Amps
Ø Primary disconnect is to be provided by owner. Location of disconnect is requirement of local Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ).
Ø Electrical termination point is at top of elevator. If a split is used electrical termination will be on top of head/split system.
Ø A phone line with a phone jack is to be provided near the power supply, but isolated.
Ø A 4ft power cord and plug is provided on top of elevator or head/split system for easy of connecting. The provided plug is manufactured by
Pass & Seymour or Comparable substitute:
Click to expand...
 
iceworm said:
... My question is if I get a trany that goes from 240-220v the fact that I have 244 or more volts will I still get 220V?
No - you will get 223.67V. If you find a 240V/24V buck boost (kwired's auto transformer) at 244V in, gives 219.6V ± utility tolerance. ...
Click to expand...

Hummm - Look at 210.9
Could be that 2 each 120V/12V BB are required. The code section has a specific exception for 208/240, but doesn't say anything about other voltages.

the worm
 
Dennis Alwon said:
... 220 VAC (no exceptions 220VAC must be provided, 210 VAC or 230 VAC is not acceptable, if installation does not have 220 VAC on a regular basis, a voltage regulator or transformer must be installed by the home owner). Voltage fluctuations are not covered by the warranty. I love this part
Click to expand...

The forked tongued devils:
Manufacturer can not design/build equipment that can run on the normal utility supply in their intended market.
In one breath they are alluding to 220V nominal, "if installation does not have 220 VAC on a regular basis,"
But in the next breath, "Voltage fluctuations are not covered by the warranty."
 
From their specifications:

220V, 60 /50 Hz,
30 amp single phase power supply
5 turbine motors located in pump box using a
total of 5 KW
Click to expand...
So they have 5 x 1kW (3/4HP) single phase motors on this thing, but they are rating the motors at 50 OR 60Hz. That is not going to be true, there has to be some sort of compromise here, so they are just not willing to allow any further "fudge factor" in the field because they are already using it rather sell two different versions for 50 or 60Hz markets. The thing is, YOU have no control over what the utility actually gives you, meaning it might be 244V today, but it might be 238V tomorrow.

So I would document the ACTUAL measure voltage at the time of installation, select and install a Buck-Boost transformer to get you as close as possible, and tell your customer that this is the best available option but make no assurances beyond that.
 
I think they are trying to weasel out of honoring any warranty. Motors can handle 10% variation in voltage pretty easily, especially if not in continuous use application.

One can easily have a few percent variation from POCO no matter how hard you try to prevent voltage drop issues.
 
Jraef said:
From their specifications:


So they have 5 x 1kW (3/4HP) single phase motors on this thing, but they are rating the motors at 50 OR 60Hz. That is not going to be true, there has to be some sort of compromise here, so they are just not willing to allow any further "fudge factor" in the field because they are already using it rather sell two different versions for 50 or 60Hz markets. The thing is, YOU have no control over what the utility actually gives you, meaning it might be 244V today, but it might be 238V tomorrow.

So I would document the ACTUAL measure voltage at the time of installation, select and install a Buck-Boost transformer to get you as close as possible, and tell your customer that this is the best available option but make no assurances beyond that.
Click to expand...


I see 5 turbine motors with a total of 3 kw. I wonder if this is a listed product. It must be as they are located all over the country


General:
· External cylinder diameter: 37" (940mm)
· Rated Load: 450 lbs. (205 kg)
· Number of Stops: 3
· Speed: 30 fpm
· Travel 1-2 & 2-3: TBD
· Color: White
· No pit required. Bottom level floor must be 100%
level as elevator rests on existing floor.
· Overhead clearance.: 97" Min
· No hoist way required.
· Penetration required to install through floors and
ceilings: 39” (991mm)


Safety:
· Automatic descent to ground level at safety speed in the
event of a power failure.
· Mechanical emergency brakes within two inches of free
fall in vacuum loss or catastrophic failure.
· Electromechanical interlocks at each landing
· Alarm system and telephone


Certification:
· American Society of Mechanical Engineers ASME A17.7
· See Supporting certificate and report
· Certificate # NA 10-0842-1004-003-01


Cabin:
· Entrance width opening: 23 1/2 " (569.9mm)
· Internal cabin height: 79" (2006mm)
· Internal cabin diameter: 32" (812.8mm)
· Automatic LED lighting and cabin fan
· Door openings: Inline Side
o All doors are hinged on top left, with door swing to the
left, from inside the cabin.
§ Door Height: 77" (1,956mm)
§ Height to top of Door closer: 79" (2006mm)
o Each landing level specified will include only one door.
· 24 Volt electrical circuits with all controls in cabin
· Push button call controls with precise leveling at each landing.


Mechanical Requirements:
· 220V, 60/50 30amp single phase power supply
· 5 Turbine motors located in pump box using a total of 3KW


Load Calculation:
Given load on ground floor is based on a car full load of 450
lbs, brake anchoring, and momentum / stress under braking.
Load is 93 PSI. ( Note: Given load is when car is at top floor
landing and resting on column / railing). Load is transmitted
vertically to ground floor via column/rail.
The dimension of each column is 3.2" X 1.68"
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top