• We will be performing upgrades on the forums and server over the weekend. The forums may be unavailable multiple times for up to an hour each. Thank you for your patience and understanding as we work to make the forums even better.

Transformer XO

Status
Not open for further replies.

mclain

Member
Re: Transformer XO

Ok Roger let have one more go at this. As drawn in your diagram there is no parallel currents paths. If your transformer is setting outside on a pad and the grounding you have indicated is one or two ground rods there would be no parallel paths. In most industrial setting you would have parallel paths. You would have water pipes and the metal frames of the building bonded to the grounding electrodes and thus back to the transformer. You would create multiple parallel current paths from the conduit and EGC that are connected to the electrical equipment. The paths would be created by the conduit and equipment being in contact with the metal parts of the building. I hope this explains where the parallel current paths come from. The bonding as shown in your diagram is allowed by 250.30 (A) (1) Exception No. 1. as long as it doesn?t create a parallel current path and the earth isn?t considered a parallel path. There is no reason to start making nasty little remarks in your post. You might have installed thousands of transformers I don?t know. I have installed two in the last month and I would guess less than one hundred total. But I have never received one with a factory installed bonding strap from the xo connection to the frame of the transformer. Maybe we are installing different types of transformers. The most common one we uses is a 112.5 KVA three phase,dry type. :)

[ January 10, 2004, 04:41 AM: Message edited by: mclain ]
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: Transformer XO

Quote the code article.

Roger
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: Transformer XO

Hi Russ, you're right. ;)

Roger
 

dereckbc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Plano, TX
Re: Transformer XO

Originally posted by arcandspark:
Per code, the neutral is bonded at the first means of disconnect...not a transformer.
The neutral can be bonded at either the transformer or the first disconnect.
 
Re: Transformer XO

when i worked with control panels almost every XMFR we wired wen't neut wen't to case and E-gnd then neut and hot went to distribution blocks
 

ronaldrc

Senior Member
Location
Tennessee
Re: Transformer XO

Doesn't the NEC state that you can jumper xo either in the transformer or the switch gear or panel but not both because it would create a parallel conductor. :)
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: Transformer XO

Part of 250.30(A)(1)
this connection shall be made at any point on the separately derived system from the source to the first system disconnecting means or overcurrent device, or it shall be made at the source of a separately derived system that has no disconnecting means or overcurrent devices.
And part of the exception to 250.30(A)(1)
Exception No. 1: A bonding jumper at both the source and the first disconnecting means shall be permitted where doing so does not establish a parallel path for the grounded circuit conductor.......
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: Transformer XO

Hello Ronald, long time, hope your doing well, wish my illustrations were a 100th of what yours are. :(

I think part of the confussion is I didn't clarify the raceway as being nonconductive, although I thought the right hand graphic indicated this.

This being the case, Bob's reference is correct and 250.24(B) also could come into play.

Here is a edited version of the earlier drawing to point out the nonconductive raceway.

XO_options.JPG


Roger
 

ronaldrc

Senior Member
Location
Tennessee
Re: Transformer XO

Hello Roger

Good to hear from you.
The code doesn't really quote what I said but thats the way I interpret it.

I wasn't even thinking about the raceway but that would make a difference if you didn't pull an EGC. in your conduit.But even with pvc if you lost your neutral and it was bonded at both locations and maybe a metal pipe line of some kind that was bonded to the system grounding system it might become part of the neutral.

Does that make sense? :)
 
G

Guest

Guest
Re: Transformer XO

Charles R millers Illustrated guide to the NEC is a good reference for this. In the current edition under Tranformers Grounding and Bonding on pages 302 and 303 there is a very good illustration and discussion regarding exactly your situation. The first shows a system where the Neutral bond is done at the transformer and the neutral bus on the panel is not gounded making it a subpanel. The following page shows I believe the more common system whein the Neutral is not bonded at the Transformer but is bonded at the panel. Then you have a turly separatly derived system just as if it came from the poco.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: Transformer XO

Originally posted by joe stewart:
I believe the more common system whein the Neutral is not bonded at the Transformer but is bonded at the panel. Then you have a turly separatly derived system just as if it came from the poco.
Joe, bonded at the transformer, at the panel or both these installations are all truly SDS, (separately derived systems) by the NEC definition.

In this area the the engineers show on the drawings and if given the choice electricians are much more likely to do the bonding at the transformer only.

The panel or disconnect ends up with separate grounding and grounded conductor terminals.

IMO this makes the panel better organized. :)
 
G

Guest

Guest
Re: Transformer XO

I guess your a right ther iwire. I just did a real old school blg which orig had overhead service. They removed it to allow for an elevator to be placed wher the drop was. They refed the service from the new building underground to the old bldg to a dist panel which had the breakers for the elevator. This panel also fed a trans former which was to boost the voltage to 240 volts the original voltage of the system. isolation trans 208to 240 single phase. We left the original service panel intact and just fed the separatly derived voltage to the panel. Guess I dont know how you say it keeps the panel cleaner. Oh well worked out fine in our case anyways..
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top