Trimmed Wires Violation Code

[mtsparks82]

Looking for the code that says trimming larger wires to fit into a small termination is a violation.

i know its bad, but everything i can either find in the code book is vague to this subject or the threads i read are not precise. PLEASE help. ill add a picture to give detail.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't believe there is a specific article that states you cannot trim a larger wire, although there may be , however how would you prove what size the wire is and if it is still compliant with the breaker size. In some cases this may not be an issue but I doubt many inspectors would allow it.

 

[infinity]

110.3(B) would require that the conductor connected be sized to the terminal on the CB.

 

[Cow]

I don't know if I'd make a big deal of that existing installation. It's obviously been there for a while and I see no signs of overheating or discoloration, so.....:angel:

 

[jumper]

I will go with the fact that branch circuits and feeders must be sized to carry the load and that the ampacity of the trimmed/damaged conductors can no longer be proven/shown/calculated.

 

[Jraef]

110.3(B) would require that the conductor connected be sized to the terminal on the CB.

Add to that 110.14 (A)

(A) Terminals. Connection of conductors to terminal parts
shall ensure a thoroughly good connection without damaging
the conductors

If you have to trim strands off of the conductor to fit the lug, you have damaged it.

 

[rlundsrud]

If you needed to run larger cables than can be accepted by the lugs because of voltage drop, you can use Polaris connectors or some other approved means to splice in a smaller cable that can fit in the lugs. This can be done in the panel itself as long as there isn't an issue with fill.

 

[JFletcher]

Welcome to the forum.

Add to that 110.14 (A)
If you have to trim strands off of the conductor to fit the lug, you have damaged it.

This.

 

[peter d]

I don't know if I'd make a big deal of that existing installation. It's obviously been there for a while and I see no signs of overheating or discoloration, so.....:angel:

And I'm sure the load never even comes close to the ampacity of those conductors.

 

[Coppersmith]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Blackbur...lid-Barrier-Wire-Stop-ASR2506-B1-10/100190266

These come in various sizes and allow you to legally change wire sizes.

Also good for connecting AL to CU.

 

[peter d]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Blackbur...lid-Barrier-Wire-Stop-ASR2506-B1-10/100190266

These come in various sizes and allow you to legally change wire sizes.

Also good for connecting AL to CU.

I love those connectors - cheap, easy to install and they have many vital uses.

 

[iwire]

I don't know if I'd make a big deal of that existing installation. It's obviously been there for a while and I see no signs of overheating or discoloration, so.....:angel:

And I'm sure the load never even comes close to the ampacity of those conductors.

That has nothing to do with the OPs question though.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Blackbur...lid-Barrier-Wire-Stop-ASR2506-B1-10/100190266

These come in various sizes and allow you to legally change wire sizes.

Also good for connecting AL to CU.

I love those connectors - cheap, easy to install and they have many vital uses.

I agree 100%, just restocked the truck with those.

 

[Michael15956]

Code aside where is the danger with trimming those pictured conductors?

I also stock the pictured connectors, but they add two more connections, then taping carefully and they take up space and they don't bend well.

I also think that trimming the said conductors are safer and neater.


I would however consider a wire reducer pin instead.

 

[dkidd]

If you needed to run larger cables than can be accepted by the lugs because of voltage drop, you can use Polaris connectors or some other approved means to splice in a smaller cable that can fit in the lugs. This can be done in the panel itself as long as there isn't an issue with fill.

Or an issue with bending radius/ distance to cabinet wall.

 

[peter d]

That has nothing to do with the OPs question though.

Is this your first day here? :huh:

 

[kwired]

Is this your first day here? :huh:

There is a current mission to keep threads more on topic, even if it is sort of on topic but at a different tangent then the OP question - it is subject to be called improper.

 

[JFletcher]

Code aside where is the danger with trimming those pictured conductors?

The danger is that wire is sized to the load it will carry, and trimming that wire will reduce its load capacity, and increase heat, possibly to the point of fire. You could also have significant voltage drop and equipment problems.

That the wire wont fit the breaker means it's oversized anyway for w/e reason. Giving it a haircut is hack-y and against code.

That said, most things arent run to a margin where losing a strand or two is going to cause problems, but Ive seen where close to half the wire is missing; 3 10ton AC units triple stabbed into a 250A breaker, which was wrong on many levels.

Polaris connectors are already insulated and the two extra connections add negligible resistance.

 

[Michael15956]

The danger is that wire is sized to the load it will carry, and trimming that wire will reduce its load capacity, and increase heat, possibly to the point of fire. You could also have significant voltage drop and equipment problems.

That the wire wont fit the breaker means it's oversized anyway for w/e reason. Giving it a haircut is hack-y and against code.

That said, most things arent run to a margin where losing a strand or two is going to cause problems, but Ive seen where close to half the wire is missing; 3 10ton AC units triple stabbed into a 250A breaker, which was wrong on many levels.

Polaris connectors are already insulated and the two extra connections add negligible resistance.

My question was with the "pictured wires" not a hypothetical you made up.

Also it was in reference to where is the danger, not if it is "hacky and against code."

Again my post never included "Polaris Connectors."


Please follow the current mission to stay on topic!

 

[JFletcher]

My question was with the "pictured wires" not a hypothetical you made up.

Also it was in reference to where is the danger, not if it is "hacky and against code."

Again my post never included "Polaris Connectors."


Please follow the current mission to stay on topic!

I explained the danger. Those arent hypothetical risks. You initially asked what code sections trimmed wires violated, and were given two. You then asked "where is the danger with...", I explained the 'code-aside' risks.

Without knowing what size breaker those wires are in, or the load(s) on the wire, no one can answer the question 'is this dangerous?' (semi quotes indicate you didnt directly ask that). In some cases, that circuit will be fine, in others, it may not. Even if I had the exact details of the install, there is no way I would say that shaved wires are acceptable in any case.

I and another mentioned Polaris connectors as they are a code compliant way of downsizing wire.

I say hack-y because it is; the original electrician could have at least turned the conductors 180* so that the cut strands arent visible (unless there's another 3 cut on the backside, in which case a 90* flip would have been prudent)

 

[Michael15956]

You initially asked what code sections trimmed wires violated, and were given two.

No I did not. Read entire thread again. You have me mixed up with the OP.